Burning brush piles

[tmc_31]

Hey all,

I am clearing my neighbors 5 acre lot ( one acre is already cleared so 4 acres of work) of prickly pear, medium to large mesquite and small scrub oak. The pear, I am scraping up with rake that I built for my skid steer (like a rake on a dozer but with 3" spacing between the tines). Per the owners request, I am piling the pear around the perimeter of his property to form a kind of security fence. The "fence" winds up being 2.5-3' tall and maybe 5' wide. His thinking is that the pear will grow there and make a barrier that won't be much fun for the bad guys to cross. Also, it will be decorative (this is Texas you know:thumbsup.

The real purpose of this thread is to get some idea of what I should charge him to burn the brush piles. This is not neighbor helping neighbor (I do some of that too), this is contractor working for neighbor. My agreement with him now is to rake the pear onto the property lines, grub the mesquite and other brush and rake them into piles. It looks like I am going to wind up with about 3 piles (roughly 30' diameter x 8' high) per acre (12 piles total). He asked me the other day about burning the piles for him. I checked this morning, we are not under a burn ban now but we may have to wait a few months for the piles to dry out enough to burn . Due to his and my concern about fire danger I suggested that we dig a fire pit away from the house and out buildings and feed a smaller (more easily controlled) fire from the brush piles. I can use the grapple on the skid to move material from the brush piles to the burn pit. It looks to me like there is going be a lot of time spent just watching the fire burn and keeping it contained.

This also might be a test case for a larger burning project (about 30 acres and 70 piles) for another friend of mine down the road.

Thanks, I will be interested to hear your thoughts. I am not locked into any particular method yet so I am open to all advise.

Tim

 

[Egbert]

Not sure about the cost but I vote for as few burn sites as possible. My thought is to keep the land scars minimal, as to not promote takeover by weeds in the absence of grass from the burning. Would pick the safest location and wait for optimal conditions - a little snow cover, light rain or spring green-up. With about 100 acres, I've been able to keep my burns in just 2 piles.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Since your a contractor I'd be careful about burning. It would be considered a commercial burn in Texas and regulated by the TCEQ. If the "home owner" was to burn there are a lot less rules to follow. Get a torch from tractor supply that hooks to a 20 lb propane pig to light the piles. I can them going with that even if I have just piled it up. As far as a price it all depends on what you value your time. You will get much better results if you can baby sit them and add as needed.

I started typing this a few hrs ago so if it's already been said and I repeated. Sorry.

Brett

 

[creekbend]

Please use Diesel and not Gasoline. I use an old 2 gallon sprayer with a spray wand and nozzle. I spray in the middle and light it with a crumbled piece of paper. I then spray more Diesel as needed. In NC, a burn permit is required.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I got the propane Brett mentioned at HF and I do love it for burning. It is like a blast furnace to get one spot hot fast in each pile. After that I like to start with the leaf blower so I do not have to stay up with the fires a long time. Catching the correct weather is important.

 

[Ken45101]

What to charge? Why not charge per hour for your actual time?

 

[tmc_31]

Hey guys, I was going to respond yesterday, but I got to reading through the TCEQ rules regarding the burning of brush. Thanks for the heads up Brett. As far as I can tell, there is an exception to the no burn rule for burning brush. The home owner or his designee can do it. There is no requirement for notification to the TCEQ, just local authorities. I didn't find any reference to a commercial burn as opposed to a residential or non commercial burn. So I think I will be ok to burn it assuming the weather conditions are right and there is no county burn ban in place. Are you able to get a good burn on freshly piled brush? I would have thought it would have to dry out some before it would burn well. My thought was to let this sit for 6 months or so before trying to burn it. That would put me into April or so before I could burn it. The area should be damp enough that I shouldn't have to worry about a burn ban.

Creekbend, yeah, I will be using diesel as a starting fluid. I found out the hard way many years ago that lighting brush fires was not a good use for gasoline.

I like the idea of using a pear burner to light the fire, it keeps my face out of the flame

My problem with how to price this is since I will be required to babysit the brush piles while they burn, I will spend a lot of time just watching (if we burn the piles in place). Less so if I transfer the brush from a brush pile to a burn pit. I have no problem charging by the hour for this, but what is a fair hourly rate for this kind of work? I think I would want to do this as a "hired hand" as I am afraid that my insurance carrier would have a coronary if they knew I was starting fires. I think that working as a hired hand, it would put any liability squarely in the hands of the homeowner.

Tim

 

[Xfaxman]

Check this Website for the wind forcast: WindAlert

Be aware of radiant heat, I had a dead tree that was 150 feet from a big burn pile, catch on fire.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

Hey guys, I was going to respond yesterday, but I got to reading through the TCEQ rules regarding the burning of brush. Thanks for the heads up Brett. As far as I can tell, there is an exception to the no burn rule for burning brush. The home owner or his designee can do it. There is no requirement for notification to the TCEQ, just local authorities. I didn't find any reference to a commercial burn as opposed to a residential or non commercial burn. So I think I will be ok to burn it assuming the weather conditions are right and there is no county burn ban in place. Are you able to get a good burn on freshly piled brush? I would have thought it would have to dry out some before it would burn well. My thought was to let this sit for 6 months or so before trying to burn it. That would put me into April or so before I could burn it. The area should be damp enough that I shouldn't have to worry about a burn ban.

Creekbend, yeah, I will be using diesel as a starting fluid. I found out the hard way many years ago that lighting brush fires was not a good use for gasoline.

I like the idea of using a pear burner to light the fire, it keeps my face out of the flame

My problem with how to price this is since I will be required to babysit the brush piles while they burn, I will spend a lot of time just watching (if we burn the piles in place). Less so if I transfer the brush from a brush pile to a burn pit. I have no problem charging by the hour for this, but what is a fair hourly rate for this kind of work? I think I would want to do this as a "hired hand" as I am afraid that my insurance carrier would have a coronary if they knew I was starting fires. I think that working as a hired hand, it would put any liability squarely in the hands of the homeowner.

Tim

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. I have some experience "legally" burning brush in Texas.

Generally, you only have to notify your sheriff's office. TCEQ is only there is someone is complaining about smoke OR you are in an area that has reached non-attainment for air quality. In that case, burning may not be allowed on certain days. State law says that you can't burn in a temp or air inversion.. where the smoke sinks. You can't burn at night and all piles have to be out at night. Also, no burning of petroleum products like tires or oil that would generate thick, black smoke. That's the quickest way to get shut down and fined. It's legal for you to burn the brush where you cleared it but illegal to haul it away and burn it elsewhere though contractors do that all the time.

Here's where I agree with you. I like burn pits. They are safe and if the winds of a norther kick up, you have the ability to bury the fire. It is less of a scar (if your ground isn't rocky because you can turn over healthy soil.
The tricky part is, depending on the density, you would need a big pit OR a lot of time to get 4 acres of mesquite and oak burned. Oak burns slow.. mesquite not much faster. I'd recommending having some saw help to cut longer logs so you can make tight, concise piles to push into the pit. If you don't do a pit, I recommend several piles but not too big. Too big is just that much more ground that will be sterile for years and attract weeds/Roosevelt willow, etc.

I use a water wagon. It's a simple 500 gallon tank with a 5hp sprayer and 300 ft of 1" line with fire hose nozzle for safety. I don't like to burn but have burned large acreage of cedar and oak. I always take it seriously. There are a lot of contractors who don't respect fire and get away with years of doing dumb things then they catch the neighbor's place on fire and have no insurance.
So glad to see you are asking questions and have a plan!
It sounds like you know as much as anyone here and I wish you well.

As for charges.. I charge slightly less to burn than I do to clear. If I'm getting x dollars a day to clear, then I will stand by fire piles all day for slightly less but it's my butt, time, and equipment so I don't burn for free like some of my competitors. I can sit home and watch t.v. for free.
If I have to bring a machine to move brush to fire (I HATE doing that and RARELY will move brush to an existing fire, I charge the same as I would if I clearing. Doesn't take much smoke/soot to ruin a $80 air filter or make your machine stink if you have A/C.
So don't sell yourself short on the disposal. Most likely he won't want the hassle of doing it himself and the mulching guys or chipping guys would charge about $1500-2000 an acre to mulch brush assuming the oak and mesquite aren't too big to make it cost-ineffective to mulch. Add in your liability and it's worth something to do the burning.

Oh, pear burner works good. Longer the hose, the better. I use a little diesel, too, and a few old rags if I have them or the brush is wet.

 

[Creamer]

I have to agree with you about waiting 6 months. you will get a lot cleaner and faster burn, i.e. less particulates in the air and as you say it should be green and safer in April. I personally would not spend a lot of time moving brush piles - i would burn them in place especially in the spring when ground cover will come back quickly.

Charges - the same as any other job. Especially if you do it in the spring because you can get numerous piles burning and you need to have your equipment there and ready if needed.