Business ideas

[taborekle]

Hang in there imron, you can do anything if you want it bad enough. There is nothing wrong with making the fat-cats squeal a little. Competition is good, that is how our system is supposed to work. If you can offer a service cheaper, then go for it. **** the torpedoes, full speed ahead.

THIS!!!

 

[Builder]

Hang in there imron, you can do anything if you want it bad enough. There is nothing wrong with making the fat-cats squeal a little. Competition is good, that is how our system is supposed to work. If you can offer a service cheaper, then go for it. **** the torpedoes, full speed ahead.

"Fat Cats", huh?

Gimmie a break.

I wonder how much "squealing" we'd here from a white collar business man having his spot taken by a blue collar worker? Probably just as much.

I think we're not seeing the forest through the trees here. The point is not that the man isn't perfectly constituionally protected and welcome to go into business. The point is that 99 out of 100 guys that do this don't stick with it. So they won't be there in the long run when they sell the Kubota CUT to back up the work if it's done incorrectly when they go back to their career job. Then they leave lower the wage earnings for someone like me who's been at this for 20-25 years.

Now maybe you think it's great that my backhoe or construction rates or a career painter's or landscaper's wages get cut by 25% by the local insurance salesman with a B-21, but it sure hurts our families.

My kids want to go to college, take vacations, have a nice place to live, just like your kids. So why do we have to suffer because they lost their career or white collar job?

What if someone came to your boss and offered to take your spot for 25% less pay? You'd be "squealing" too.

 

[wcpeabody]

"

What if someone came to your boss and offered to take your spot for 25% less pay? You'd be "squealing" too.

I work a white collar job, IT consultant, and it happens all of the time but it is more like a 50-75% reduction in hourly rate from someone on the other side of the planet.

If you do not think white collar faces the same tough competition then you are not seeing the whole picture.

 

[Builder]

I work a white collar job, IT consultant, and it happens all of the time but it is more like a 50-75% reduction in hourly rate from someone on the other side of the planet.

If you do not think white collar faces the same tough competition then you are not seeing the whole picture.

Peace my friend! I do think the other side faces the same problem!

I think it's wrong either way unless it's a career change or a part time job.

If it's just a temporary way of making money and undercuts guys who make a living in the neighborhood doing the same thing, I think it's wrong.

 

[taborekle]

I don't think I could make any distinction for someone in this situation over short time work or long time work. Why should it make any difference to a long time builder if some johnny comes in for a short time to compete, or comes in for a long time to complete? Frankly, if anything, I would assume that the short term competition would be preferable.

First off, my hats off to anyone that is trying to meet their obligation to their family, and to the debt that they owe through hard work. My hats off to the OP for his willingness to do what ever it takes (legally) to meet his obligations in tough times.

I would also remind everyone here, that if our rolls were reversed, if it was us that was suddenly unemployed, and we were looking for someway to contribute to our families income, would we refuse (or not look at) any opportunity that came along? How wrong would that be for us.

Our first obligation is to our families and our creditors. After that we can start thinking about the next guy over.

Now I do understand the argument by some that these folks come into their fields, but really. If you in the landscaping business or building business were unemployed, would you refuse a white collar job if it were available? Would you be so selective to exclude any opportunity to work when looking through the want-ads? You're concerns that he's taking money out of you're mouths are the same as his. You're trying to protect you're families income just as he is. Can you fault him for being like you?

Larry

 

[newbury]

"Fat Cats", huh?

Gimmie a break.

I wonder how much "squealing" we'd here from a white collar business man having his spot taken by a blue collar worker? Probably just as much.

<snip>
Now maybe you think it's great that my backhoe or construction rates or a career painter's or landscaper's wages get cut by 25% by the local insurance salesman with a B-21, but it sure hurts our families.
<snip>

What if someone came to your boss and offered to take your spot for 25% less pay? You'd be "squealing" too.

If the "white collar business man" had a job that required the complexity and learning achieved by the "blue collar worker" then the "boss" should hire either.

Steering this discussion further down the road - compare it to undocumented persons from outside the US coming in and taking jobs.

Now let's go to "white collar" jobs in tech support, programming, and "blue collar jobs" in mfg. being shipped overseas.

It's a new world every day.

Most people in the "backhoe or construction rates or a career painter's or landscaper's" arena do not have to worry about their job being shipped overseas.

People like EddieWalker have commented on how they keep their business built up because of quality product.

Heavy equipment operators generally require no college degree. If you are comparing it to a clerical, "admin" assistant job, or sales job then it's about equal.

But for example when I grew up in the 1960's "white collar jobs" were engineers and managers and at IBM virtually required a college degree just to get into them. The "blue collar" jobs such as manufacturing computer chips did not require a degree, and paid far less.

Some jobs pay a lot more regardless of college degree or not, for example Bill Gates. But generally in this country it's a combination of education and experience and you need both for the higher paying jobs.

 

[Builder]

I don't think I could make any distinction for someone in this situation over short time work or long time work. Why should it make any difference to a long time builder if some johnny comes in for a short time to compete, or comes in for a long time to complete? Frankly, if anything, I would assume that the short term competition would be preferable.

First off, my hats off to anyone that is trying to meet their obligation to their family, and to the debt that they owe through hard work. My hats off to the OP for his willingness to do what ever it takes (legally) to meet his obligations in tough times.

I would also remind everyone here, that if our rolls were reversed, if it was us that was suddenly unemployed, and we were looking for someway to contribute to our families income, would we refuse (or not look at) any opportunity that came along? How wrong would that be for us.

Our first obligation is to our families and our creditors. After that we can start thinking about the next guy over.

Now I do understand the argument by some that these folks come into their fields, but really. If you in the landscaping business or building business were unemployed, would you refuse a white collar job if it were available? Would you be so selective to exclude any opportunity to work when looking through the want-ads? You're concerns that he's taking money out of you're mouths are the same as his. You're trying to protect you're families income just as he is. Can you fault him for being like you?

Larry

Big difference between a "job if it were available" as you put it, and just deciding one day to become a temporary backhoe company because you got laid off. In that case, you're taking a job from the already existing area backhoe operators. In the former, you're filling an available job position.

Big, no HUGE difference there, my friend.

Hey, you guys do what you want, but I guarantee you if you were in my shoes, you'd feel the same way I do.

I get more phone calls from guys who are laid off looking to paint or do carpentry work and I can tell they don't have a clue what they're doing compared to a pro. I dislike them giving the good tradesmen a bad name, but I don't begrudge them for trying to make ends meet.

It's this cavalier attitude that "I think tomorrow I'll go into the backhoe, painting, carpentry, etc. business" attitude like it's so easy and then leaving us with lower hourly wages & prices to meet, that gets to me.

 

[Diamondpilot]

This is not just seen in Blue Collar Jobs. I work both a White Collar Job as a pilot and a Blue Collar Job repairing boats and trailers.

Up until 5 years ago I could make $500 a day flying airplanes for dealers and corporations as either a demo pilot, fill-in-pilot, or ferry pilot. I did not do this very often because I have a full time job, well really two, but maybe 10 days a year. I have not been able to do so since 9-11 and the mass lay off of pilots. There are 1000's walking the streets under bidding me. I guess this is fine since I have a job but what it has done is just like Builder describes in his line of work, and brought the going rates down. I still use fill-in-pilots 3-4 times a year to cover vacations and sick time for the companies corporate jet I fly and my guys get $600 plus expenses but I do not use the under cutters. I get guys and gals who are well respected and paid their dues.

Chris

 

[LoneCowboy]

C

Honestly though, I can't see a problem with the guy mowing some overgrown lots. Mowing hardly seems like a skilled trade to me.

Mark

the problem isn't that it's unskilled.
The problem is that they aren't paying their fair share and competing on the same playing field.

here in Colorado you have to have license plates (registration) on your tractors. (yes, even if they never go on the road, use them commercially, must be registered, basically proof that you paid your taxes).

Try $500 a year per tractor.

Insurance. commercial vehicle (about double personal usage), liability, health.

Transportation laws. USDOT #'s, log books, drug tests, random drug programs, emissions tests (don't ask), DOT inspections, proper tie downs, working lights, etc, etc, etc

paperwork and income taxes. Taxes, quarterlies, secretary of state filings, bank accounts, etc. Met a surprising amount of people who are annoyed that the "other guy" will only take cash and won't bill. Hmmm, do you think the "other guy" is actually reporting this income?


Pay all that (and the next tractor besides mine that has plates will be the first I've seen) and I have no problem. I am more expensive than some and less expensive than others. But don't pay all that and of course you are cheaper. duh.


Then, there's the other side that just hasn't learned what it really costs to run a tractor. They are getting cash flow, but in 1 or 2 years they haven't made enough money to fix/repair or replace their equipment. Those guys fall out of the business fast (or bring their rates up), but they kill the prevailing rate. "but the guy last year did it for $50". Well, call him then. Well, he's out of business. (ohhhh, shock)


Everyone seems to want all these taxes and programs and such (they all seem to pass in our democracy), but no one seems to want to pay them.

Sooner or later they get caught, but for the 1,2,3 years they are in business underground, they just bring the prevailing wage down.

 

[LoneCowboy]

Bi

It's this cavalier attitude that "I think tomorrow I'll go into the backhoe, painting, carpentry, etc. business" attitude like it's so easy and then leaving us with lower hourly wages & prices to meet, that gets to me.

Expanding on the previous lines, it's not so much that they go into business.

It's that they go to work and don't take into consideration all the costs. (see above) What do they care? They are going to do this one, 2 5 times and then they are done. They aren't paying for their equipment, they aren't paying the taxes and paperwork, they aren't paying advertising (which is fine actually), they are just low balling a job to get some cash.

I call them illegal contractors. In most states you have to be licensed to do about anything (which is mostly to protect against this), but no one cares. People say they care about service, but most don't. Most only care about price. (it's a Wal Mart Nation).

So, "other guy" gets a gravy job for 2 days for 3/4 of the regular price. Pays no taxes on it, adds 20 hours to his machine, but that's really not important because he won't be adding 20 hours a week to his machine for the entire year like a Pro and maybe has insurance, maybe not. He takes some cash.

meanwhile, the Pro doesn't get the job but still has payments to meet. (taxes, insurance, equipment, etc) so he can be available on short notice to dig up your plugged sewer line. Oh no, the "other guy" won't be around for that, that's technically demanding and requires instant on call. Of course, the very first question at the Pro's bill will be "why so much?" (again, they don't care about the service, the instant response, etc)

Well, because I didn't get the gravy job to help keep costs down so I have to make it up in niche work and being instantly available. Nobody understands that everything has it's cost. Illegal contractors and illegal workers are just as bad.

Certainly there are better ways to do things, more efficient, capital intensive ways. But if the wages are driven down by illegal contractors and workers, why bother?

I watched a guy cut a 2 acre field (2' high with weeds) with a regular walk behind 21 inch mower. Took him 2 days. It would take me about 15 minutes. There's no way that any reasonable person would do that, But hey if the wages are $5/hour or "free", why not?

to get back to the OP's post, that's why everyone has something small, because it costs the same amount of money to run something big and there are a lot more jobs. That guy with the push mower thinks he saved money because guess what? My minimum charge is high. Of course I show up with with a lot of equipment (including truck). We don't do a lot of small lots, because nobody wants to pay it. And that's the problem with the OP, everyone and their mother thinks their little tractor can do what a full size backhoe can do. So, all the real backhoe work gets bigger because there's no money in small jobs. So, when you really need a backhoe guy, there's no one around. (somewhat rambling, sorry)