Buying a first Tractor; HST or not?

   / Buying a first Tractor; HST or not? #71  
Grande,
I have nerve damage to my legs, need a walking stick to get around. I thought a HST would be perfect for me. I test drove a Kubota and a John Deere and had trouble with both of them, ended up with a JD 4400 with synchro reverser. I have forty hilly acres and have no trouble getting around with it. I use a grappler a lot to pick up downed timber, large rocks, and to pull out saplings. I realize that I have different needs than most people, but the bottom line is don't buy a tractor without test driving several of them. Get the tractor that fits you and get it from a good dealer.
 
   / Buying a first Tractor; HST or not? #72  
<font color=blue>I think I remember something along those lines from an unregistered troll. I hate it when folks use sweeping generalizations, then follow up with an outright dismissal of any and all counterpoints.</font color=blue>

I have seen that attitude from registered users, some long standing.
 
   / Buying a first Tractor; HST or not? #73  
<font color=blue>Winner takes all</font color=blue>

All of what, John?/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
 
   / Buying a first Tractor; HST or not? #74  
I was going to reply to a couple other of the new posts and then thought better of it. It's a no winner. My post above says what I have experienced with what I use my tractor for.

If I did row crops then the gear would be it. But I don't so a hst is perfect for ME. That is why at the end of my post I said to rent or demo both and see for yourself.

Oh and to all the posters who were afraid to post because of getting fired on by other long time posters. Please don't be afraid to post your views.

In closing I'm very sorry if I have upset or scared anyone into not posting what they feel. I will stay out of discussions like this in the future because of the feeling that is being generated with this thread. But I do have to say one last thing. If you get an equal pile of dirt and put me on an hst. Then have someone else on a gear tractor I'll win every time. That is not ego talking it's fact. Been there done that.

Guess I'm starting to flame again so I better go and get some water.So nuff said

See ya
 
   / Buying a first Tractor; HST or not? #75  
gordon,
I did not buy a tractor with intent to race !!
 
   / Buying a first Tractor; HST or not? #76  
Hey fellow TBNr's,

I have a question for the HST owners out there. I was test driving a HST (NH TC45D with SuperSteer) the other day. It was my first time to ever drive a Hydro. I had a very hard time getting use to the sudden jolt you get when you take your foot off of the peddle to change directions. I have used Shuttle shift tractors in the past and there is a natural feathering when you change directions.

Is this sudden jolt something you learn to avoid with feathering the pedals or something you just have to learn to live with?

Other than that I really loved the tractor and the hydro.

Thanks for the feed back,
 

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   / Buying a first Tractor; HST or not? #77  
<font color=blue>Is this sudden jolt something you learn to avoid with feathering the pedals</font color=blue>

Yes, and pretty quickly, too, in my opinion, but it'll sure surprise you when you aren't accustomed to it.
 
   / Buying a first Tractor; HST or not? #78  
JMIII:

Now you know a soft ball game just wouldn't be fair to the hydro guys. Everybody knows that us gear drive guys have at least one leg far better developed from constantly using the clutch. And one arm better developed from all that shifting.
 
   / Buying a first Tractor; HST or not? #79  
Richard - Ok, so now I know of one person who switched from HST to gear. I'm happy to take your word for it. As for the rest, I have to disagree.

I believe gear tractors are the way to go for straight farming applications, for a variety of reasons, which have been discussed here repeatedly and at length. Except for this application, I don't think a case can really be made for gear transmissions, other than preference, which is always anyone's right. But it's important that we understand our decision is based on preference, not objective information, when that's the case, especially if we're going to recommend our preference to others who believe that our greater experience makes us reliable guides.

It's the assertion that HST transmissions are for beginners and that "really experienced" users prefer gears that is the most misleading and damaging part of your post, from my experience. I'm not questioning your motives, but this type of argument is a subtle form of belittling that results in people making decisions for emotional reasons, never a good idea when picking out powered machinery. No one wants to appear "inexperienced" or to be called a "beginner" (at least for very long) - it would be a very sad thing for a person to pick a machine less suited to his needs because of non-rational arguments like these, wouldn't you agree? And all the more especially so when it's patently untrue.

As I've repeatedly said, I've got lots of experience on all kinds of equipment. If fact, if I use an HST tractor another couple thousand hours, I'll still probably have more experience on gear tractors than HST. If I wanted to demonstrate to anyone how safely or quickly I can do a job, I'd pick the HST every single time, even though I'm far more experienced on non-HST machines. I also believe I'm a very capable operator on either type of equipment. The reason I use the HST is because it allows safer and quicker operation in a far greater range of jobs, and I do have sufficient experience with both types of equipment to make that evaluation. I realize I'm repeating myself, but I'm not a beginner, nor am I an inexperienced operator - so clearly your assertion can not be true. I'm not questioning your motives, or experience, either, for that matter, but to say that anybody can be faster on a gear machine than an HST is misleading, at best. It simply ignores the mechanics of what the operator has to do to operate the machine. Maybe the experienced operator doesn't "think about it", but not thinking about it doesn't change what he has to do. To say that an experienced operator is just as safe on a gear tractor as he would be on an HST machine is also to ignore the physics of the situations. The only way either of those statements will ever be true is if the operator biases the comparisons deliberately because he wants the gear tractor to be superior. I don't have a problem with anybody liking a gear machine better. I love shifting gears myself. Everything I own, as I've repeatedly said, has a manual transmission, except my tractor.

For that matter, I've never said everyone should own an HST. I've never even said that someone who owns a gear tractor should buy an HST - only that, if you're looking at buying, you should consider it. If you like gears, then by all means, drive a gear tractor. But, please don't let your lack of objectivity on the subject cause you to make assertions without basis. Again, gear tractors can not be as fast to operate as HST ones. Gear tractors can not be as safe. It makes no difference how much experience you have, nor does it matter how fast your reflexes are - the best you can do is minimze the differences, but you can never eliminate them.

Now, as I said, there are applications where gear transmissions excel over HST models. But if you're using a CUT for one of those applications, you're probably using the wrong machine for the job to start with.

Please don't take this personally - I'm not criticizing your choice of machines. But it's important that we correctly identify why we think a choice is the best one before we recommend it to others. Contrary to your post, beginners do not buy HST tractors, then "graduate" to gear models once they gain some experience. The greater likelihood, though not always, as you have proven, is that it's the other way around, and for very practical, logical, reasonable, identifiable, and demonstrable reasons.
 
   / Buying a first Tractor; HST or not? #80  
Not counting the parking break, what is the mechanism that holds an HST 'in place' while off. I.e. a gear tractor being 'in gear' using engine compression to hold still, etc.

Internal transmission brake?

Soundguy
 

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