Buying/Pricing

[JATO_RaT]

Hehehehehe, that would be a first. I know, lets start now staying on topic. What are your thoughts Pete? By the way, what do you think Lance Armstrongs chances are of winning the yellow jersey in the Tour De (day) France, oops, there we go again, we'll start next thread, Rat...

 

[Bird]

Richard, I've never used a tractor with a synchro transmission, so naturally that would make a considerable difference. And I thought you still had an older tractor without it for baling hay. I was just curious. Most of my hay baling was with an older Oliver, so I figured to sit there with the clutch depressed and the engine running at PTO speed long enough for the baler to tie and dump a bale might be hazardous to the throw out bearing. So, when I stopped, I put it in neutral so I could let the clutch pedal out, but after dumping the bale, it was necessary to drop the RPMs to idle before trying to put it in gear again, then bring the RPMs back up to continue. That tends to slow you up and make more work, too. Of course, I didn't have that problem with the Deere PowerShift.

 

[Soundguy]

Since we are all posting our .02 cents worth, I might as well throw mine out.

I prefer gear over hst. My tractors at home are gear, and our tractors at work are gear. Most of our heavy equipment is HST, with some of it being gear.

From what I have observed, gear drives are better at long term even power transfer ( discing, towing, etc. ) Lets face it, even the car manufacturers know this, that is why they make auto trannies with a lock up toque converter.... the fluid medium does have some loss.
Personally shifting gears doesn't bother me.. just seems natural. An interesting observation I have made with our big JD front end loaders ( 544 series ) is that their HST trannies run very hot when you use them to tow with.
We were clearing about 40 acres and after we have it down to the dirt, with the stumps and roots out, we needed to drav harrow it to smooth it a bit before laying some geotechnical fabric. The jd 544 loader actually had the tranny overheat by towing the drag harrow after 30 minutes! Thes loader can dig in clay and load dump trucks all day fine.. but not pull constantly. We finally ended up finishing with a jd2240(gear) tractor and it drug the rest of the jobsite with no problem.

Again.. to each his own. I know many people who simply can't operate a manual transmission, or don't feel good on one... that's why they make auto's... I on the other hand don't like the power trade off.

By the way, on the HST tractors, is the hydro fluid from the same pool as the regular hydraulics? So if you bust a hydro line way out in the field, the tractor sits there?

Soundguy
<font color=blue>won't say that the hst isn't right just that a gear tractor isn't wrong either. For the extra $2k or better for an hst a guy that's on a budget or is making a decision between a bigger tractor, other equipment, etc. a geared tractor shouldn't be eliminated as a possibility. Some of us still prefer manuals and like you said there are

 

[cowboydoc]

Bird,
I've got that Deutz that I bought for round baling. You're right though I wouldn't want to have a non-synchro transmission. That part I 100% agree with you on.

 

[butzkeg]

I'm wondering if "safer" is maybe not the best choice of words for a Gear/HST debate. HST is more of a convenience/ease of use item for alot of people.

Whether a tractor is a gear or hst, makes no tractor any more or less capable. Both can pull a blade, a plow, a mower, use a loader, a backhoe, etc.

There maybe be a steeper learning curve with a gear trans (not for everyone mind you), and more coordination is probably required with a gear.

As stated, there are also transmissions like the PowerReverser, which are probably almost as convenient as the HST. It's completely personal preference for the trans.

Just this past weekend, I was reminded of another reason I got a HST, I was working on our pool, and needed the tractor backed up. My options were, have my 2 year old son, 5 year old son or wife move the tractor. None of them have ever driven my tractor (I was doing something critical at the time and couldn't move it myself). Logically, I picked my wife to move the tractor. Thank God, I have a HST, as my wife has ZERO coordination. She successfully backed up 15 feet and even lowered the FEL too. 8 years ago when we were dating, I had a standard transmission car, and I thought it would be fun to teach her how to drive one. Well, she never really got the hang of it, just a complete lack of coordination. In a complete emergency, she could move a standard trans vehicle, but that's it (it wouldn't be easy). If I had a Gear tractor, I would have picked my 5 year old son to move it.

Another reason for me getting HST is I'm rather impatient. I wouldn't enjoy my tractor as much if I had to stop to change directions/speed, actually it would drive me nuts.

I was able to use a Ford 1910 gear trans for a day, backfilling some trenches. While the tractor was more than capable for this, I knew I wanted a HST when I bought my JD4300.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Thanks to all. Even if it gets a little heated here, I know you guys are giving me honest opinions. I know nothing about tractors, and make no bones about it when asking the dealership questions....but as I learn more, it'll be tougher to pull the wool over this kid's eyes.
As for standards vs. automatics - I own both, for different reasons. My standard is a 1992 Corvette 6 spd. I also race actively in the SkipBarber series. I drive a stick for the control, balance and precise application of power. (There is nothing like precisly sliding a 300hp stick at 40mph.....sorry had a moment there..) My 3/4 Chevy is an automatic. I plow snow up here in the great NE - something you wouldn't want to do very long with a manual, I have and have the limp to prove it. Again, a lot of automotive/mechanical experience - none with tractors. You guys have been a huge help.

The saga continues...drive the NH TC29D w/SS and compare TC33D w/o on Saturday (SS or no SS). Either way, I don't think it will be a NH. I like them, but all four cars in the driveway are bowties. Having trouble with the blue paint, heard it may go Ford again.

Have to contact the Kubota and JD dealers, but sat on a Kubota at a local closed dealership last night. They seem to be a very HD tractor - the 3010 seems to be beefier than the TC33D - but seat time will tell the tale. Thanks again. - Sean

 

[tdenny]

Richard,

I will never see a plow, disc or baler on the back of any tractor I will own so I will go with your veteran savy as to the fact that the gear would be preferable here./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Dazed...
I have been raised on a farm in WVa,I have run tractors since I was big enough to climb on one on my own.
I have driven bulldozers (John Deere 750 hydro) with hydro.I have a Sears Craftsman riding mower with hydro.
And I currently have a JD 4400 hydro...and I would not have anything else now but a hydro.
My 76 year old mother has never been able to drive a standard very well,I have never seen her drive a tractor period,but I would not hesitate to walk her out the door and put her on my JD 4400 and have her start it and drive it,because all she has to do is take her foot of the pedal to stop....The same with my 11 year old daughter.
I have about 455 hours on my tractor and I have done lots of brushoging,landscape work where all I done for all day was forward/back/forward/back.If I was having to reach for a gearshift and the clutch pedal,I would have taking me a lot longer to do the same work and I would have been a lot more tired.There is no way the average Joe can work a gear transmisson(use to a standard or not)can keep up with a person driving a hydro,not to mention the extra work of driving the standard and the wear and tear on the clutch.The syncro reverser is the next best thing,but I would still rather have the hydro.If you hade to bale off the tractor for an emergency,once your foot comes of the hydro pedal it stops.If your wife never drove a tractor,should would have fun on a hydro and probably enjoy the experiecne.
Bottom line the hydro is more user friendly than anything else out there and worth the extra $$$$ peroid. Any argument to this is asinine and bullheaded.

 

[Boondox]

<font color=blue>Any argument to this is asinine and bullheaded. </font color=blue>

I wonder why words like this are more often used by unregistered types..? Dazed, there are legitimate reasons for the DT and GST models. Personally I wouldn't own one, but pay no attention to the trolls.

Pete

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Boony,
Those words were probably a poor choice of words and I apologize to everyone....A troller,not true...I will probably register in the near future.
Pay no attention to a troller u say...So someone that is not registered's, opinion does not count or no useful information can be obtaine from an individual unless he or she is registered??If that is the case everyone should be required to register before posting.

 

[Soundguy]

<font color=blue>"Boony,
Those words were probably a poor choice of words and I apologize to everyone....A troller,not true...I will probably register in the near future.

<font color=black>Considering it is free, the only thing you lose is anonmity.

<font color=blue>Pay no attention to a troller u say...So someone that is not registered's, opinion does not count or no useful information can be obtaine from an individual unless he or she is registered??If that is the case everyone should be required to register before posting. "

<font color=black>I don't think he meant it that way. It is just that we that took the time to register, are more likely to respond more readilly to someone that is also registered, and has taken the time to do so. Many people purposefully do not register due to the anonmity it entails.. and then they use this anonmity to make more or less firey comments without the possibility of retribution.

Those that take the time to open the -free- account and agree to be governed by the moderators and the guidelines laid down by the owner tend to be more credible, but that is not to say that all posts from unregistered sources are without merit.

Soundguy

 

[Golfgar4]

/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

Isn't this same basic conversation going on somewhere else right this moment? Like in News/Feedback??/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

 

[Pilgrim]

“I also race actively in the SkipBarber series.”
-Dazed
-----------------------------
Ever run Lime Rock Park?
The downhill leading to the Main Straight is a trip, no?
Like sittin on a rocket sled. But don’t stuff one of Skip’s cars into the Armco.

Pilgrim

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Exactly. Will probably run later this year.

 

[Hawkflyer]

With all due respect, did I miss something here? Unless I am mistaken the original question was what kind of tractor would work best for "Dazed". I am not trying to cause trouble but I view questions like this one as a plea for help from you more experienced guys.. I have no doubt that a manual shift works well for a lot of people doing a lot of different kinds of work. Clearly it does for you. But the question here is not what works for YOU but rather;What would you recommend for Dazed, a guy who does not have a lifetime of tractor experience, who is not doing any of the kinds of work you described as better with gear drive, and who has to start producing useful work in less than a year?I think the discussion about gear vs. hydro is interesting, but it is a side issue considering the original question. You have years of valuable experience and are very knowledgeable on the subject of tractors. If you consider only the parameters of the original question, and consider the background of the person asking, what would you recommend for HIM. Are you really saying that under all circumstances, and with a person of any experience level, on any kind or size land area, doing all kinds of work, that gear drive is the way to go?

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

I hope that language is simply the result of someone not being familiar with this as a "kinder, gentler forum." Sadly, in many online forums, that line would have been exceedingly mild.

If Hydro became a member or just a regular, I'm pretty hopeful he'd catch on. The fact is, though, I'm the eternal optomist. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[DK35vince]

My wife can not drive a standard transmission car to save her life.
But I have sycro-reverser transmission tractor and she has no problem driving it.
Puts it in one gear and go.Stops flips a lever-reverse.
Don't get much easier than that.

 

[RonL]

Dazed

Here's my take on the gear vs hydro debate: If the primary work being done is of a tractive nature, that is, the energy of the diesel is output to the wheels, I would consider a gear drive tractor. If the primary work being done is with the PTO or hydraulics ( FEL ), I would consider a hydro. If you spend all day dragging a plow a gear drive makes more sense. If you are using a snowblower or other PTO implement a hydro is much more convenient.

RonL

 

[Anonymous Poster]

It can get easier still....A hydrostat....