Inspector507
Super Member
The only security interest they have is on that tractor. To repo something else would take a suit and judgement in court.
Buying used? Check for liens
- Thread starter jfdlaw
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755inNY
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<font color="blue"> Repo his car/truck or house to recover the money. </font>
Certainly it is not fair, but it is legally right. Deere is going after the property that secured the loan not the guy who bought the tractor from the original owner. Deere has no legal right to go after the original owner by repo'ing his car/truck or house. Deere is not at fault here. Unfortunately there is a lot of fraud out there and trusting people are going to get burned.
Jeff
Certainly it is not fair, but it is legally right. Deere is going after the property that secured the loan not the guy who bought the tractor from the original owner. Deere has no legal right to go after the original owner by repo'ing his car/truck or house. Deere is not at fault here. Unfortunately there is a lot of fraud out there and trusting people are going to get burned.
Jeff
stuart
Gold Member
Once Again: If the buyer purchased it from the person who owed money to Deere had no idea there was any lein on the tractor and he gave fair (full) value for the tractor he may be able to keep it over the claim of John Deere Credit. He is called a BFP: a Bona Fide Purchaser for Value. He needs to contact an attorney in his area and not just turn it over to the JD credit people.
BillyP
Veteran Member
I don't know how the laws read where this happened but in Oklahoma, it's against the law to sell something with a lien against it. That is of course the original owner pays it off or the finance company releases the lien.
When I bought my poultry operation, the seller didn't tell me he still owed for the watering system. About a year later I received a telephone call wanting to know how to get a hold of the previous owner. I gave them his new telephone number and never heard another word from them. I did see the owner and asked him if he had paid them and he said no and wasn't going to. About 6 months later I saw he ex-wife and asked her about it. She said he had paid it off.
I did check at the county court house for a UCC filing on this and sure enough there was. Of course this was after I found out he still owed for it.
When I bought my poultry operation, the seller didn't tell me he still owed for the watering system. About a year later I received a telephone call wanting to know how to get a hold of the previous owner. I gave them his new telephone number and never heard another word from them. I did see the owner and asked him if he had paid them and he said no and wasn't going to. About 6 months later I saw he ex-wife and asked her about it. She said he had paid it off.
I did check at the county court house for a UCC filing on this and sure enough there was. Of course this was after I found out he still owed for it.
Alan L.
Elite Member
This is a real problem because tractors don't have titles. When a title is involved I believe the lendor can only perfect his security interest by keeping the title. Otherwise he files the financing statement with the UCC.
The problem is, you can't always find the financing statement for the tractor, because it could exist under names other than the one provided by the seller. Especially if the seller is a crook anyway.
In this case it would appear the buyer is screwed and will have to go back to the seller to get his money.
The problem is, you can't always find the financing statement for the tractor, because it could exist under names other than the one provided by the seller. Especially if the seller is a crook anyway.
In this case it would appear the buyer is screwed and will have to go back to the seller to get his money.
Bird
Rest in Peace
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( it's against the law to sell something with a lien against it )</font>
It sure is, but apparently is a lot more common that most folks realize. When we bought our first house in 1968, it was supposedly 18 years old and there was a gas grill (natural gas) mounted in the ground at the edge of the patio. A couple of months later, I heard from the gas company wanting to be paid for it. Apparently a prior owner had it installed by the gas company, never paid for it, then sold the house to a real estate speculator/realtor who sold it to us. I had no trouble with the gas company. They simply said the guy who owed them wouldn't be able to get gas service in Texas again until he paid for it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
And when we bought the little farm with the 40' x 60' shop building, the title search revealed a lien because that building had not been paid for. And of course I wouldn't buy the place until that lien was cleared up. Really weird deal, and I don't know whether real estate laws are the same in other states or not, but. . . .. The guy I bought the place from had sold it once before and financed it himself. The buyer had the shop built and financed that elsewhere. Then the buyer committed suicide before he paid for anything. The seller of the property initiated foreclosure proceedings and the entire property was sold at auction on the courthouse steps, with the seller being the only bidder. The company that financed the building was the loser because they could have been there and bid, but did not, therefore they lost their rights.
It sure is, but apparently is a lot more common that most folks realize. When we bought our first house in 1968, it was supposedly 18 years old and there was a gas grill (natural gas) mounted in the ground at the edge of the patio. A couple of months later, I heard from the gas company wanting to be paid for it. Apparently a prior owner had it installed by the gas company, never paid for it, then sold the house to a real estate speculator/realtor who sold it to us. I had no trouble with the gas company. They simply said the guy who owed them wouldn't be able to get gas service in Texas again until he paid for it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
And when we bought the little farm with the 40' x 60' shop building, the title search revealed a lien because that building had not been paid for. And of course I wouldn't buy the place until that lien was cleared up. Really weird deal, and I don't know whether real estate laws are the same in other states or not, but. . . .. The guy I bought the place from had sold it once before and financed it himself. The buyer had the shop built and financed that elsewhere. Then the buyer committed suicide before he paid for anything. The seller of the property initiated foreclosure proceedings and the entire property was sold at auction on the courthouse steps, with the seller being the only bidder. The company that financed the building was the loser because they could have been there and bid, but did not, therefore they lost their rights.
BillyP
Veteran Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It sure is, but apparently is a lot more common that most folks realize )</font>
Yeah Bird, it is. A lot of times, in Oklahoma anyway, you don't know some things until you get ready to sell a piece of property.
Example... I hire a contractor to build me a barn. He opens up an account as "The BillyP Barn" at the local lumber yard, so he can track expenses. He gets through and I pay him but he doesn't pay the lumber yard. The lumber yard can file a lien on my property for money owed on my 'supposed' account. I wouldn't know the lien had been filed unless I sell the property or refinanced (anything that involved a title search).
Some laws are just plain stupid.
Yeah Bird, it is. A lot of times, in Oklahoma anyway, you don't know some things until you get ready to sell a piece of property.
Example... I hire a contractor to build me a barn. He opens up an account as "The BillyP Barn" at the local lumber yard, so he can track expenses. He gets through and I pay him but he doesn't pay the lumber yard. The lumber yard can file a lien on my property for money owed on my 'supposed' account. I wouldn't know the lien had been filed unless I sell the property or refinanced (anything that involved a title search).
Some laws are just plain stupid.
Billy, I think what you're talking about is a Mechanic's lien. In Ohio, to properly perfect the lien, certified mail service/notice of the lien must be sent to the owner, who then can give the lienholder a notice to commence suit. This notice forces the lienholder to act right away or lose their lien rights.
Soundguy
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That certified stuff would be a 'Notice to owner'.. I have to fill them out every now and then for the contractor I work for.
The best way to get around these problems.. is to always have the contractor provide ' release or waiver of lein' from his subs and material suppliers, -before- paying him.
When I built my house about 4 years ago.. the bank wouldn't issue a draft/draw to the contractor without him providing WOL from each sub or material supplier that had work or materials involved with the invoice being paid. Protected everybodies interest.
Soundguy
The best way to get around these problems.. is to always have the contractor provide ' release or waiver of lein' from his subs and material suppliers, -before- paying him.
When I built my house about 4 years ago.. the bank wouldn't issue a draft/draw to the contractor without him providing WOL from each sub or material supplier that had work or materials involved with the invoice being paid. Protected everybodies interest.
Soundguy
BillyP
Veteran Member
I did pretty close to that when I had my barn built. I set up an account at the lumber yard (limited to x amount), When the job was done, I paid him the difference between bid price minus material cost.
