Mowing bx mowing on hills

Anonymous Poster · Mar 18, 2003

I've got a question for all of the bx owners out there. How is the bx when mowing uphill? While reading the book it was mentioned that the possibility exists of rolling the tractor over backwards going up a steep hill (never had the power to try that trick before!!) I've got a 45 degree slope that I always mowed uphill and down using a Snapper rider or Dixson ZTR mower (more often slid down as tires/ clutch broke loose on downhills). I would set forward on the seat to shift weight to the front on the uphills and never had a problem.
Any body ever get the front end up on one of these machines? Is it worth investing in front weights??
DaveL
BTW: It runs GREAT /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif!!! Itching for dry weather, high grass and puttin' in the veggies.

nitronut1 · Mar 18, 2003

I have a 45 degree slope in the front of my property. The BX does just fine as long as the grass is reasonably dry and you use a low speed. Four wheel drive is not needed - just common sense and a 'no rush' attitude. I don't know how you could flip it unless you were going really fast and hit something or stopped abruptly. I have the 60" deck so theres also about 300 pounds of steel 2.5" off the ground asting as ballast.

The first time I tried it I was amazed at how well the machine tackles the slope; much better than a garden tractor.

Oh - one other thing. If you have any trees growing on the slope, be careful when going around them. The rops will hit the tree on the uphill side if you circle them (oops - surprise!). I don't circle them anymore to save on trimming.

Gregg

kyoders · Mar 18, 2003

Dave,

I think they are cautioning you about having the center-of-gravity skewed that way. If you were to hang up the front-end in any way, there may be enough torque to the rear wheels to pull the front-end up (and over) /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. I suppose it might be possible to "goose" the pedal suddenly and do the same thing. Going up backwards, the torque would not be working in a dangerous direction. Weight up front would help, as long as it's low enough to shift the CG forward. Weight behind you on the 3pt hitch, or pulling a trailer, would work against you.

It is even possible to flip a tractor over backwards on level ground, like pulling a trailer with the hitch point above the rear axle. There was a story not too long ago about somebody hanging their ROPS up on a swing set. The tractor happily pushed the rear tires forward, while the swing set held the top of the ROPS in place. Net result was a wheelie (he was able to stop before going over).

I had a 25hp garden tractor for about a week. I tried pulling a trailer of mulch up the back drive (steep, but not 45degrees). The tractor stopped moving forward, the rear wheels started turning in the gravel, and the front-end started coming up. Fortunately I backed off the hydro pedal before anything really bad happened. Everything was within the specs for the tractor; tongue weight, towing weight, attached to factory hitch point, etc. That tractor went back the next day.

Kevin

Will_C · Mar 18, 2003

I have never noticed the BX getting light in the front end. Remember, you are talking about 400-500 pounds more weight than a large garden tractor. Be careful, but I can't imagine having problems with the same type terrain that you were able to handle with your other equipment.
Will

kyoders · Mar 18, 2003

Will,

I find it hard to imagine doing it too. My new BX22 with nothing in the FEL and the BH on goes up that same driveway without any problem at all. But there's always something new to learn. I just hope nobody ever has to learn if it can happen by doing it. As an example, the consensus seems to be that you will lose traction with a BX before you run out of HP, but I found enough traction in my lower yard one day to lug the engine pulling a middle buster. I think it was a combination of just the right ground conditions plus the MB wedged just under a healthy root.

Kevin

chrisjbell · Mar 19, 2003

Four wheel drive is not needed - just common sense and a 'no rush' attitude. 

You might be able to get away without using 4WD, but I'd suggest that you do even if it isn't required. I have lots of hills (one that is as steep as yours) and one thing I've found in experimenting is that there are times that being in 4WD is nice, not because you need the forward traction but because your front wheels act as brakes or a kind of speed control working in conjunction with the back wheels.

Every now and then I'll be out mowing and wonder why the tractor is acting kind of squirelly and most of the time it is because I'm in two wheel drive. I don't think that it would cause much extra wear - the thing is designed to be 4WD and on grass you'll get plenty of wheel slip so it shouldn't be like driving on concrete. I believe that the hardware in the front axle is still turning - just unhooked at the transfer case (like a 4WD truck with the hubs always locked).

Anonymous Poster · Mar 21, 2003

Thanks all for your replies. It made me set back when I read the book & saw the caution. WHAT A TRACTOR /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif!
DaveL

Anonymous Poster · Mar 21, 2003

DaveL and nitronut1,

You're mowing 45 degree hills? Really?

Or are they hills that FEEL like they are 45 degrees?

Did you measure these hills somehow to be sure they are that steep?

I would really like to know, because I can't imagine being able to do that on a tractor. I will admit to being a tractor newbie, not having a year of tractor use under my belt yet.

A true 45 degree is steep. When I think of mowing up and down something like that all my mind can say is:

REALLY? WOW! Not something I want to do!

Anonymous Poster · Mar 22, 2003

Henro,
I'm not sure if its an exact 45. But its STEEEEEEP. My property is terraced on three levels (bought it off a crane operator who had two machines: a 45 ton Bay City cable trencher and a 40(??) ton Lima crane w/ clamshell bucket that he used on the property to sculpt it). The terracing is great in that it provides more usable land but the transition points between terraces are very steep. There are some spots I won't attempt to mow but one in particular is flat at top and bottom and only 20' high at its tallest point. I never tried to mow it with a lawn or garden tractor because I figured I'd end up wearing the thing. A low cg machine like a Snapper or Dixson rear engine rider will do it but the drivelines aren't stout enough and break loose or the tires slide. It can be fun /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif!!

Once it dries out I'm going to try it carefully and see what happens. I agree that 4wd may be best as I could never keep the wheels under the other machines. With the weight pitched forward on a downhill and the front axle engaged it should provide a lot of traction to hold the machine.
Maybe wheelie bars on the back for the uphill /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif???
Nitronut1: thanks for the info and the tree advice. I would have done the same thing and then said " oh xxxx, how am I gonna get his thing off this tree /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif?????
DaveL

Bird · Mar 22, 2003

Bill, I guess everyone is aware of the difference between a 45 degree slope and a 45 percent slope. Like you said, 45 degrees is steep. And I know a lot of folks can look at a slope and estimate how steep it is a lot better than I can. I've mowed (downhill only) one slope at my brother's place that I would have guessed to be about 45 degrees, only to find, when I got the tiltmeter that it wasn't half that steep. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

riptides · Mar 22, 2003

Man I am scared for you just reading your post.

Please be safe.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

nitronut1 · Mar 22, 2003

The slope averages 45 degrees. It is absolutely the most exciting part of mowing my property. The best way for me to tackle it is to mow up it, back down, move over and mow back up. Thank god for the 60" deck.... For me, the tractor feels better doing it this way.

About the ROPS hitting the tree - that was really exciting. I was so used to the garden tractor (without one) that the first time I circled the tree on the slope with the BX, well, you can guess what happened next. It's one of those things you don't forget and you kick yourself later for not thinking of. See when it hit, the tractor doesn't just lift up in the front...it also scoots sideways - deck first into the tree.

Anonymous Poster · Mar 22, 2003

Out tooling around on the bx this morning moving driveway gravel off the lawn. What a beautiful machine to work with /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif! You can knuckle the bucket down, float it and the loader frame has just enough give in it that it will roll the stone right out of the grass, even if the blade isn't dead even with the grass. And it doesn't slip and slide all over creation either. As far as the hills go, I looked at some of them from the standpoint of maybe cutting them down a bit. I never looked at it with an eye to fixing it as I never had equipment to do the job. The old owner aparently had dumped fill on the one and never groomed it out. It slumped down the hill and left a "roll" at the bottom. Then he added insult to injury by grading down right below that point. Thats the point that really creates problems. I think I could take a box blade and back up the hill, pick a point along the line of the hill, and start cutting it down. I estimate that by cutting off the slumped portion, and by cutting the crown of the hill back, I could possibly taper the slope out to 25-30 degrees or so. There is plenty of room below to spread any excess and to feather the slope out. Once the weather improves, and once I get more proficient with the machine, I think I'll try it.

I will say this; I am thoroughly impessed with the feel and operation of this unit. It is a far cry from a "garden" tractor with a loader. It is a sweet machine /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif!!!

Only one problem. I think the wife will be a tractor widow this summer.
Thanks all for your input.

Hopin' for max seat time,
DaveL

Anonymous Poster · Mar 22, 2003

Dave...why not consider planing something "low maintenance" on those really steel slopes. Something that doesn't need to be mowed! That's about the safest option you can go for...

Casimir · Mar 22, 2003

Actually, Bird, a 45 degree slope is a 100 percent slope. For every foot you travel forward, you go up or down a foot. Just think of it as a triangle, with two 45 degree angles and one 90 degree angle. Very few 4WD vehicles of any kind will climb a 45 degree slope easily, even if it is concrete or solid rock. When we were fighting fires, we wouldn't even take bulldozers on 45 degree slopes unless they were moving downhill, with the blade down for extra braking - and sidehilling???? - a recipe for a quick rollover, and over, and over, and over...... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Anonymous Poster · Mar 22, 2003

jbecker,
I would put gardens in but here in MD everything grows so darn quick: weeds, locust saplings, thistle, and every other durned nasty plant created. And the deer only like the good plants. If I could get the deer to eat the bad stuff I would put it into plantings but they pass up the stuff I want them to eat and chew up the azaleas /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif!!!!!!

I've found that the only thing the deer don't eat is barberry, but barberry doesn't do well in shade (this area is a shaded, north facing slope). And as much as I'd like to take my frustration out on them with the 30.06, I'd never get all of them(anybody up for a big barbecue? Venison anybody? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). So after 15 years of trying to outwit them I've pretty much given up /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif.
The one thing besides weeds that they won't eat to the ground is grass. So grass it is. And I have mowed it for a long time.
I'm looking at box blading it but if it gets too hairy a friend of mine has an old green cleat track dozer that I may be able to borrow.
Don't worry folks. I may be dumb but I usually "figger" it out eventually (I think) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
DaveL
BTW :It must be that I am frustrated due to a severe lack of seat time but how do I get the colors to work for text /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif???????????

ps to casimir: No way I'd try to mow that hill sideways! My wife would kill me for not having enough insurance to keep her comfortable and able to retire after the tractor landed on me.

Anonymous Poster · Mar 23, 2003

DaveL... I have the same problem as you. I have a bank that is about 45 degrees which is not safe to mow. Although I have mowed it when dry with my Wheel Horse. Even when dry the tractor slides to the bottom of the slope. I sold my Wheel Horse and bought a BX2200. I don't plan to cut the bank with the Kubota (too dangerous). Next month I plan to plant Pampas grass on the slope to eliminate the need for mowing. I have used it on another bank and it seems to be a good solution. It is attractive and the deer won't eat it!

We have had major problems with deer in our area. As you pointed out they eat just about everything. Last year I installed three strands of electric fence to protect our young fruit trees and to protect our vege garden. It is only three feet high but the deer won't cross it. They could easily jump the fence but they don't. I have the fence on a timer. It comes on after dark and goes off just before light in the morning. IT works!

Anonymous Poster · Mar 23, 2003

JWE,
Thanks for the info. What is Pampas grass? Is that the real tall stuff that gets a white frond (????) on top?? Is it invasive? Not sure if its for me but interested in investigating the possibility. Will it choke out the junk weeds? How much care does it require?? Will it grow well in shade?
I would still like to keep it in grass and kept both the Snapper and the Dixson just in case. Sliding down in one piece is definitely preferable to arriving at the bottom in a lump.

Regarding the deer; The one thing they don't like is blood meal sprinkled over the plants. That works in the veggie patch most years. But it gets expensive to throw around liberally. Have tried mothballs, hair (wifes, mine is scarce)with no effect on them. Tried fence once. Wife went down to pick and jumped a doe bedded down between the tomato cages(jumped in and probably couldn't figure a way out until it had a reason to do so. Plenty of food so she was happy). Wife went screaming one direction, doe over the fence in the other. I thought it was hilarious; wife didn't.
 BTW, you are right. You really can do anything on this site if you can "figger" it out. Now you get to see my ugly mug on my posts as well.
Thanks for all of the input folks. You have my mind slowly churning.....................................
DaveL

Anonymous Poster · Mar 23, 2003

There are quite a few ornimental grasses that would be great for this kind of thing...and they are available in a variety of heights. In addition to keeping your tractor away from a dangerous slope, they give habitat and food to birds and other creatures and do well at controlling errosion. And they are definitely more interesting to look at than "plain old" grass!

Anonymous Poster · Mar 23, 2003

DaveL... Pampas Grass comes in all shapes and sizes. We have about three sizes and various colors. I put plastic down before planting and then each spring I cut a couple of inches of plastic away from the base of the plant to let it expand. The Pampas Grass that I have is not agressive but the root crown will expand each year.