BX22 4-way valve or 3-way?

[UncleAl]

Had my new BX22 for a few days... wow! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
They're in very short supply and my dealer got what seems to be the last available machine in these parts.

I am confused about the loader valve.
I had asked for the 4-way valve but dealer told me he couldn't get one with it, so I settled for what he said was 3-way on this tractor. However, the bucket will "fast dump" (free fall) when lever is pushed fully to the right, so I'm not sure which I have... I was hoping my TBN BX brothers/sisters might help to identify by numbers on the valve.

My numbers from the plate on the valve:
HUSCO
K02A3890 05
7J240-61011
9210-83F

I got a copy of the parts book from TractorSmart, it only gives Kubota part number, no help. (BTW, they have free PDF parts books for download, please don't pay $40 for a printed copy like I have seen some do! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif)

 

[KWentling]

The numbers on my valve are different. It is a Husco valve with the following numbers:
DOZA3090 05
75532-62011
9210-B4 F
My understanding of valves is that 4-way valves are used for double acting cylinders and 3-way for single acting cylinders or motors. I'm sure you have a 4-way. Not sure why you have a different part number. Maybe they were refering to the number of spools?

I looked at Tractor Smart and couldn't find where to download the parts book for a BX22. Could you give me some help?

 

[techman]

I would have the dealer backorder the 4-way for you and swap it out, and be sure he only charges you the difference. Some members have decided to change after the fact, and it becomes a big bill at that time.

The 4-way is useful if you ever decide to get a snowblower or a hydraulic blade. Except for a small price difference, there is no disadvantage to the 4-way.

paul

 

[joec]

I think you have to request it and they will e-mail it to you.

http://www.tractorsmart.com/enter.htm

 

[joec]

Click on parts....Then click on "complete Kubota price list"...then "don't know my part number".
I think you have to request it and they will e-mail you a copy. Hope this helps.
Joe

http://www.tractorsmart.com/enter.htm

 

[UncleAl]

Parts books for Bx22:
This one will give you BX22 and associated parts (FEL,BH,MMM)
http://www.tractorsmart.com/books/bx22.htm
You can subsitute model numbers as well for different tractors. A couple of others I tried are:


http://www.tractorsmart.com/books/bx2200.htm
http://www.tractorsmart.com/books/b2910.htm

Others may work, experiment for yourself. (Don't try www.tractorsmart.com/Books, you will get an error message. ) If you can't find what you need, you can always ask them to e-mail you the proper address.

(I hope I'm not stepping on toes by sharing it with you guys, I went the "e-mail request" route and just tried several others, please correct and forgive me if I'm wrong! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif)

 

[KWentling]

Thanks for the Tractor Smart links.

Just what is this "4-way valve." How do I know if I have it?

 

[UncleAl]

Kim, Thanks for your reply.
I rechecked my numbers, (better light than at 0600 this am, my eyes are not what they used to be.)

Mine: K02A3898 05 7J240-61011 9210-B3 F
Yours: D0ZA3090 05 75532-62011 9210-B4 F

I'll bet the first number is a serial number, maybe the first part of the middle number as well. The second part of the middle number (61011 vs 62011) and the last number (B3 vs B4) may be the keys to the difference.

If you push your joystick all the way to the right, does the bucket fall quickly (like a free fall)? My bucket will fall until it hits the stops. From what I read on other posts here, I think this is the main difference for FEL with 4-way vs 3-way valve, (supposedly 4-way allows quick dump, 3-way doesn't) but if I have the 3-way valve and it will quick dump, maybe there is no FEL difference after all.....

As explained by Techman and others, a 4-way is an advantage for implements like snow blowers. Where I live, snow blowing is really a non-issue, but I like to know what I have onboard.

 

[KWentling]

UncleAl: Mine does have the fast dump. I have it disabled right now trying to solve an air in cylinder problem. (see: air in cylinder? thread) Believe she's going to see the dealer soon. 127hrs.

 

[UncleAl]

Kim,
OK, so I will make the following assumptions unless convinced otherwise:

<ul type="square"> [*]I do indeed have the 3-way valve as my dealer asserts. [*]There is no functional difference in 3-way versus 4-way for FEL control. Fast dump is common to both types. [*]The paragraph in the FEL manual (page 10, right column) that talks about the "regular" dump and "second" dump positions must be an admonition to not use the "second" position for other implements if you have the 4-way valve.[*] As I have no present or anticipated future need for a snow blower, I can safely put this concern to rest and get back to digging. [/list]
Thanks for your efforts on solving this mystery. I hope you get your cylinder woes taken care of soon.

 

[rlw]

If you don't think you'll ever want to add the snowblower, broom, or front blade to your tractor then keep the 3-way - otherwise trade it out now.
I didn't think I'd ever what any of the front attachments when I bought mine, but I was wrong. About 6 months after purchase, I decided to add the front blade and broom. Fortunately, my dealer still let me trade for the price difference.

The following is a write-up by another poster describing the difference between the 3 & 4 way valves. It was written up over a year ago.
The 3 position valve and the 4 position valve, both have what is known as a regenerative circuit built into the bucket dump circuit.

First let me explain what "regen" is and why.

When dumping a loaded bucket (with a good old fashioned loader control valve) the weight of the material in the bucket tends to pull the cylinders down faster than the hyd. fluid can fill the other side of the bucket cylinders. Therefore, an air pocket will develop in the cylinder causing the bucket to be a little "floppy" unless held against relief for a few seconds at the end of the dump cycle. Which creates an extra step if you want to back-drag, etc.

To solve this problem we now add a regenerative (regen) circuit into the dump function of the loader control valve.

What is "regen"? The dump function of the loader control valve applies hyd. "power" to both sides of the bucket cylinders at the same time. But Kubmech, how the heck is that going to work? Wont the cylinder just lock up and not move? No, because on one side of the cylinder the rod itself takes up space, decreasing the volume of the cylinder, on the other side of the cylinder piston there is, no rod, creating more volume. PSI=pounds per square inch, the more volume the more square inches to apply pounds, get it? O.K. so the back side of the cylinder overcomes the front side of the cyl. due to more volume and at the same time does not allow an air pocket to develop becuase of the added resistence of "hyd. power" to the front side of the cyl. allowing the cylinder to "stay tight" for subsequent operations. And as an added bonus it tends to dump faster due to the higher amount of flow/pressure to perform this operation. (Hence the "fast dump" mode the salesmen love to tell you about) In actuality the "fast dump"
mode is just derivative of the regen circuit.

Soooo..... What's the difference between 3-pos. and 4-pos. valves, besides about 35 bucks.

The 3-pos. valve has regen in the dump mode period. The problem with regen is if you want to add, say a snow plow, with power angle running off of the loader control valve, the power angle works off of single acting cylinders. With "hyd. power" being supplied to both sides of the cylinder, you will only be able to angle in one direction and that's it. (back to the whole volume-vs-psi thing again).

The 4-pos. valve has a detented position. When moving the control lever to the right, to dump (or power angle right in the case of the plow) if you choose the first detented position this is the non-regen position and will work just like the good old fashion loader control valve. If you apply a little more pressure on the control lever you will push past the detented position and move into the regen position. Thus, if you have the 4-pos. valve and want to avoid the floppy bucket syndrome you have to push full right to engage regen.

So the bottom line is; both the newer 3-pos. and 4-pos valves have the "fast dump" option. The difference is, do you want to add options to your front loader without having to add an aux valve to you're tractor or not?

 

[idrobnjak]

Ok, so to revive an old thread. I recently acquired a BX22 and it has a 4 position control valve, just found that out. Some hoses/disconnects were leaking on the loader so I decided instead of replacing three out of seven hoses, i'd replace all of them. Assuming I had a 3 way control valve i ordered from the dealer and got them yesterday. When I went to install this morning I realized hoses are all different and that is when i went back to schematic and realized i had a 4-way C/V. I know, dumb of me not to even click on that pic to compare earlier but here I am. After examining everything, I am wondering if I can just use these hoses off the 3-way valve to connect my 4-way valve onto the loader. There are 4 outlets in question off the C/V and the only difference i can tell is with 3-way they use one long hose to connect to rigid lines in the loader, with 4-way they use 2 shorter hoses for each line with quick disconnects on them, i guess if you want to connect something else onto the control valve. I really dont want to be down for another week - returning these hoses and getting new ones, so I am thinking i can just use the 3-way c/v hoses on mine and everything should be fine. Below are schematics for each off the kubota parts site. Let me know if I am crazy to do this. And i never plan to add snowblower, blade, broom in the front, and if i do, I can then order proper hoses and go back to the current setup.

3-way hose setup:


4-way hose setup:

 

[BeezFun]

so I am thinking i can just use the 3-way c/v hoses on mine and everything should be fine. Below are schematics for each off the kubota parts site. Let me know if I am crazy to do this. And i never plan to add snowblower, blade, broom in the front, and if i do, I can then order proper hoses and go back to the current setup.

Your loader can't know if it's connected by two short hoses or one long hose, so it will work fine. I think you're right, the 4-way hoses just allow for connection to some other implement whose connector terminates at a different location and with the opposite gender of fitting, so wouldn't fit the control valve connection.

 

[idrobnjak]

Ok, so my saga here continues. I got all the hoses hooked up and paid special attention to make sure I connected the right control valve outlet to the right color rigid hose on the loader as they were before. As I was doing this, some fluid leaked out from lines and my right cylinder compressed a bit (but not my left one) causing the loader to sit crooked so I couldn’t put the loader back onto frame properly. I figured, that is fine and I will just hook up hydraulics, run it and compress both cylinders all the way and then pull them back out. So my left cylinder was out while my right one had compressed a bit, I figured from some fluid leaking out while changing out the hoses. I finally got all the hoses and quick disconnects back together and got the tractor close and connected hydraulics and ran the tractor for a little while to get the pump running properly and pressure in the system up and hopefully work out any air out of the system (hopefully that is how that works?). Then using the lever I compressed both cylinders all the way in, motion to lower the loader arms. To my surprise when I pulled lever the other way (motion to raise the loader arms) to pull them both out, only my right cylinder is coming out, while my left one just sits there in the closed position. I still can’t get the loader onto the frame of the tractor because now the left one is all the way in and that is making the angle of the loader arms impossible to properly seat onto the frame. I am beyond frustrated, and regret not getting a new tractor to be out there doing the work I need to do instead of in the garage messing with it and troubleshooting in my very scarce free time. As always, this site and you people are a godsend and any help would be appreciated.
Could I have still made a mistake and connected something incorrectly to the loader control valve? I doubt it, but possible. The bucket dump and up motions work fine and my right cylinder does what it is supposed to, is there a separate hydraulic line to the left cylinder control? It doesn’t make sense to me since I would think same line would control both cylinders at the same time. So assuming I go back and check all the hose connections and everything is the way it was before, what would cause the cylinder to stay in the closed position? Fluid not getting in on that side or is something stuck inside of it? Obviously a rookie at all this.