BX22 wont start

[copperhead1967]

OK, Used the tractor last week in 40 degree weather. Hauled some firewood and drug the gravel drive a bit with the rake since it was above freezing.No problems starting and ran for about a hour.
When I parked the tractor I tried to start back up and curl the bucket down like I normally store it. No click, no fuel pump buzz, nothing. Left her sit until today.
Todays its in the low 20's .Went out and tried to start, no start, no fuel pump buzz, nothing still. I put jumper cables on it, nothing after about 5 minutes. After 10 minutes it tried to turn over but was real weak.
I got the volt meter out and it showed 14.7 v with jump vehicle still hooked up. Pulled off jumpers and to my surprise it showed 12.5V on tractor battery.
Hooked jumpers back up for another 20 minutes. Still sluggish cranking and no start.
Removed POS wire off battery and hooked jumper cable directly up to it, thinking bad battery/shorted cell.
Jumper cable started to smoke slightly at tractor POS clamp after several start attemps. It's acting like it has about half the regular cranking.
Swapped out jumper cables as they where older set, then looked at POS clamp and saw some green corrosion behind the clamp on the copper wire.
I then took off hood bonnet and hooked directly up to starter POS and frame bolt with jumper cables. I still have POS cable off tractor battery. Still half cranking power.
Checked glow plugs and have 12.5v in glow plug key position. Tried to OHM out plug rail to ground but meter seems to be cold or have weak 9v battery. Gave weird reading. 1.1.8.1 or something goofy.
On to fuel, since side bonnet is off I disconnected fuel line on the output side of 2nd fuel filter by engine. Cranked for a second and fuel is pumping good.
My BX doesn't have any seat safety switch, never did. Just the Nuetral/drive safety switch and when that acts up there is no power to anything.
I'm out of things to check. Any ideas what to look at next?
Question about the glow plugs are they supposed to shut off after a certain time? Mine never have, just time them by counting to 30 or so depending on how cold it is. Thanks for any suggestions in advance and enduring the long read.

 

[gwdixon]

The only things of significance, it seems, is:

>It will turn over with a jump. That rules out all safety shut offs.

>The fact that hooking directly to the starter from a good/running jump source (tractor battery disconnected) still results in a slow crank.

That pretty much leave the only problem as the starter or the solenoid. Try tapping on the starter with a hammer like we used to do in the old days.

Others have had the issue you have. Do a search for more suggestions.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/211636-bx-2200-wont-start.html

 

[copperhead1967]

Thanks GW,
I didnt get back to it as a snow storm blew in but I did print the electrical diagram. Seems to me the old "bump the starter" was when it was stuck and wouldn't crank at all but I'll give it a shot in the AM. Is there a way to bypass the solenoid with a jumper. Trying to eliminate wires on the the diagram now.
Tractor was just torn down this past summer so I'm not ruling out something is pinched and shorted somewhere in the harness.:mur:

 

[gwdixon]

The solenoid's only purpose is to advance the gears to engage the flywheel. The solenoid must be OK since it will engage and turn the engine.

So, if you just hook up a battery to the starter only it will spin merrily if it is fine.

At least that will give you information that the starter works when it is not under load.

My suggestion is to take out the starter/solenoid and see if it will work correctly on the workbench. Only two bolts/nuts if I recall correctly.

Another option is to take the part to one of the automobile stores that will test it for free. Who knows, they may have something that will fix it or replace it. Kragen/O'Reilly auto parts does that kind of thing out west. Maybe you could call around to find one in PA.

 

[bruce1966us]

bad battery?

 

[XSKIER]

So, you bypassed the positive battery cable. How about bypassing the negative battery cable? Loose or corroded wires will carry voltage but not amperage.

 

[Garybake]

Swapped out jumper cables as they where older set, then looked at POS clamp and saw some green corrosion behind the clamp on the copper wire.
I then took off hood bonnet and hooked directly up to starter POS and frame bolt with jumper cables. I still have POS cable off tractor battery. Still half cranking power.

Was engine removed when tractor was torn down? How good is the engine to frame connection? You connected negative jumper to frame try negative to block with good set of jumpers. Sounds like ground path to engine block/frame has paint or high resistance. Fuel pump body components good with jumper ground to frame and then may loose them when ground to block. When removing battery you ask a lot out of jumpers that is why they have to be a good set (Thick Wire with small teeth for contact - More contact area). Put a 9volt in meter and check block to frame resistance with ohm meter. That could show good and not be good enough for amperage flow though.

 

[ibnxe]

From the symptoms in your original post, I would suspect the the original battery is low on charge, and that the jumper cables are not allowing enough current pass from the jump battery to start the motor.
Connect your voltmeter across the tractor battery, and attempt to start. If the voltmeter indication drops below 9.6 volts cranking, fully charge the battery. It is also important to remove the wires at the battery posts and inspect. The mating surfaces need to be clean and shiny. If they are gray, wire brush or lightly sand until the mating surfaces are shiny bright.
Most battery jumper cables are marginal at best. Pull back the sleeve that covers the wire junction to the cable clamps. If the wire is merely crimped, I would suggest soldering these connections. This simple step will improve the electrical connection between the cable and clamp. Also, if the wire in the cable only has a few individual strands, it will not be of much help when jumping from one battery to another.
To get the jump battery to put voltage into a battery that is low, the charging battery needs to be about two volts greater than the battery that is low. This means the two battery s are connected together, then the jumping vehicle engine needs to run at a fast idle to move current to the low battery. Allow five minutes running time at fast idle before trying to start the tractor. If the tractor starts, the battery voltage should climb to a value of at least 13 volts. This indicates that the charging system is working.
Let us know what you find.

 

[copperhead1967]

OK she started right up today. Went out and checked battery w/ the POS still disconnected , meter read 12.5v. Cleaned terminals and stuck it on loose. Turned key...good fuel pump buzz.....Vroom. Did little dance of joy. Put side bonnet back on tightened everything up ( battery first) and ran for 1.5 hours. No problems.
I think there could be some moisture/corrosion that froze up in some connection , enough to stop the engine from turning over at first. But that doesn't explain the engine not starting when hooked up to the stater with the jumper cables.
One possibility for this is it was fuel related even though I had flow, when cranking the key, out of the 2nd filter output. It's 40 deg out today and I didn't go out to work on it til 3PM. So it sat several hours ABOVE freezing.
I had just filled it before my last use so maybe there was some water in the fuel. Perhaps it settled in the engine lines ? I use ON road diesel from the local BP station. It's close by and the fuel is usually fresh as a lot of trucks fill up at the pumps. I use maybe 25-50 gallons a year so no big hit on the extra taxes. I always assumed the fuel had Antigel in it being ON road fuel. Maybe I'm wrong......think I'll pick up a bottle on CENTANE Boost/Anti Gel or whatever it's called and start adding it again.
One good thing I saw was the starter gear is outside of the engine and pushes out to engage the flywheel to crank. I was thinking I needed to tear it off and see if there was damage to the gear or the gear pin had sheared and it was slipping on it's shaft. No need to with this set up.
SO not sure but think I have a few issues to work on. I'll try it again next time it gets cold and see if the problems return.

 

[copperhead1967]

Almost forgot , Thanks for the input. You guys are always a wealth of knowledge.