BX2200 Not Starting - Electrical

[rs191]

BX2200 (D905 engine) won't start, electrically dead. After mowing the lawn last weekend, parked it in the driveway for about an hour. When I went to move it into the garage; turning the ignition key did nothing - no fuel pump noise, no dash lights, etc.

Following the repair manual, here is what I tried: 1 - battery shows 12V across terminals, 2 - terminals were cleaned with terminal brush, 3 - all fuses look okay, 4 - main (ignition) switch is getting 12V (RED conn.30 to chassis), 5 - continuity tests for all ignition switch positions were good, 6 - continuity tests on shifter and PTO safety switches were good, 7 - voltage test at Engine Stop Solenoid plug shows 7V-7.5V across terminals 2+3 WHICH SHOULD show 12V from the battery.

Manual (see msg 5 in this thread, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/90642-bx-2230-wont-shut-off.html), says low voltage to solenoid means main switch or harness problem. A new switch had ZERO effect on the problem. I did not test the solenoid itself because there is low voltage being fed there.

What's next? Anything else to try before paying the dealer to come the 25 miles to the house? How can I find out why I'm only getting 7V-7.5V to the solenoid connector?

Thanks for any ideas, Rich

 

[aggiehortguy91]

It seems like I have heard of corrosion on electrical connectors causing a voltage drop on the engine stop solenoid wire. Maybe trace the wires and check for corrosion and/or resistance. Luckily, I haven't seen this on mine (yes, I am knocking on wood while I type!)

Did you check for a seat switch and a switch on the HST pedel? I would think that even if it was a safety switch that you would hear the fuel pump.

 

[Volfandt]

Rich, the problem sounds like it's either a bad/loose/corroded ground, (- battery to frame, engine ground strap) -or- the large battery lead at the starter is loose/corroded and/or the smaller wire at the starter solenoid is loose/corroded. Generally, even when the safety switches are tripped and/or open, the lights and turn signals should still operate with key switch on as they are not effected by the safety switch conditions. Even a bad stop solenoid shouldn't keep the engine from turning over.
On the BX23, The smaller wire that is tied down on the same starter solenoid terminal as the large positive battery lead is what feeds 12v (red wire) to the key switch. It goes through a 30amp slow blow fuse before it gets to the switch. This same wire is spliced and supplies 12v battery voltage to the red wire on the voltage regulator. Make sure you've got 12v at both the keyswitch and regulator.

re. the stop solenoid. I found out, when helping someone else troubleshoot another fuel stop solenoid problem in another thread is that the troubleshooting section I posted that you referenced is incorrect on the BX23. On my D905E engine in my BX23, the stop solenoid only has two wires, one is a ground and the other is only supplied w/12vdc momentarily when the key is switched off -or- when a safety switch is "tripped" during operation.
On mine, there is no voltage reading in either the "on" or "off" condition except when the above ref events happen. The loud click one hears approx 10 -15 secs after shutdown is the timer relay removing the 12v from the stop solenoid.
Let us know what you find
Dave

 

[Deano]

How old is the battery??

If your battery is only showing 12 volts, it is dead or on it's way. Here is a chart I found on a battery site.

Battery Voltage and State of Charge:

12.68v . . . . . . . . . . 100%
12.45v . . . . . . . . . . 75%
12.24v . . . . . . . . . . 50%
12.06v . . . . . . . . . . 25%
11.89v . . . . . . . . . . 0%.

(NOTE: these readings are at 80 degrees F. Battery voltage readings will drop with temperature roughly 0.01 volts for every 10 degrees F.)
(At 30 degrees F. a fully charged battery will measure about 12.588 volts, and at zero degrees F it will measure about 12.516 volts.)


Deano

 

[rs191]

Thanks for the help. Problem is resolved.

aggiehortguy91, My early BX2200 (purchased June 2000) does not have safety switches on the seat or the pedal. Tracing the wires to look for chafing or corrosion was going to be one of my next steps. I was not looking forward to trying to trace the wires and checking continuity/voltage/ground.

Dave (Volfandt), Checking for a bad/loose/corroded ground was going to be one of my next steps. Great point about safety switches not shutting down the lights. That reminded me that my starting problem (zero noise or lights) was different from what occurred the few times I had turned the key while the shift lever was in LOW. Also, on my early BX2200, I do see voltage across Engine Stop Solenoid terminals 2 and 3 when the key is turned one click to ON?

Deano, Good point about the weak battery. I had tried to jump start the tractor after the problem started. I used a portable battery starter (Black&Decker) that I bought as a safety margin during Adirondack winters. Today I tried something different.

This morning I rechecked the voltage across the battery terminals 12.0V, as before. Then I turned the key to ON and checked again. Now it showed the 7.0V-7.5V that I had seen at the connector going to the solenoid. I had low voltage right at the battery, so I did not have to check the wiring and ground connections for problems.

I had another battery, hooked up to a Battery Tender, that belongs to a second car that is not on the road right now. With that second battery, the tractor started right up! NOW (20/20 hindsight) I remember reading somewhere that suspect batteries should be tested under load. Turning the switch to ON dropped the battery from 12V to 7V. Bad cells within this nine-year-old battery?

So in addition to all the steps I mentioned at the start of this thread check your battery under load, not just with the ignition off. I will have to check if I did not use the Black&Decker portable starter right, or if it is defective. According to the LEDs on that gadget, it was fully charged after being plugged in overnight.
Rich

 

[Deano]

Wow...9 year old battery!! My dad always told me that if you get 5 years out of a battery, count your blessings...I have found that to be true on numerous occasions. I'm not saying they won't last longer, but it is not worth the frustration thinking that is is another problem and chasing your tail.
Just yesterday at my work, we have a diesel DC power unit for our aircraft and it was just ran a week ago. Would not start, volt meter showed 4 volts. It is kept in a hangar and was brand new 5 years ago. Battery...go figure...5 years old...

Glad yours is up and running now!!

Deano

 

[Volfandt]

GTG Rich.

Thanks for the feedback on the resolution. Sometimes it's the simplest things

re. Stop solenoid. Looks like Kubota made a production change on the D905 engine and I will take note and place it in my permanent memory (course I gotta forget something else to make room but thats another story )
It appears Kubota originally used a 12v "holding voltage" on the stop solenoid for the early D905 engines as evidenced by the schematic in my BX23 WSM and your findings.
But, the stop solenoid on on my 04 D905E engine only has two wires, one is system ground and theres no voltage present on the other until the key switch is turned off and/or a safety switch is tripped during operation, and it's only there for approx 10-15 secs, hense the click after shutdown.
Seeing as how your BX2200 has been in service much longer than my BX23 and the battery lasted as long as it did, it would appear that the original method works very well. Why the change? Who knows, we'll see how it goes.
Dave

 

[4Kings]

Just for reference, I had the very same symptoms on my BX two years ago but in my case the battery checked good under load. Turned out to be a bad battery cable. Externally the cable looked fine but apparently had broken under the molded cover. I just cut off the factory molded clamp and put on a new one, problem solved.

 

[aggiehortguy91]

Thanks for posting your solution. I can't tell you how many times I've researched a problem only to find that no resolution was posted! Good trouble-shooting work finding the bad cell in the battery. I like to think that I would have thought of that in time, but the truth is I probably would have traced all of the wires and checked for corrosion/breaks before I thought about a bad cell (and it wouldn't be the first time 'cause I can be a slow learner).