BX23 vs. Hardpan

[Tom_H]

A few weeks back I started a thread which ran a little while about whether a BX23 backhoe could dig in extremely hard, deep, & water impermeable hardpan. The concensus opinion was that it probably wouldn't.

I have a BX2200 that I've been thinking about trading for a BX23TLB. TBY member Ultrarunner has a BX23TLB & lives near me in an area which also has hardpan. Ultrarunner hasn't tried the hoe yet but he has ordered a Land Pride Post Hole Digger with a downpressure kit. We think the bit tips are carbide. He & I've been sending some PM's & I've come up with this theory about how it might be possible to dig in the hardpan. I'd really welcome everyone's opinion & feedback on this theory.

1.) With the downpressured auger attached, load up the tractor with as much weight as possible: wheel weights, "beet juice" in the wheels, fuel tank full, Mid-Mount Mower attached, some weights on the floorboard and perhaps even more weights attached to the top of the arch on the digger frame, etc. 2.) Drill a straight line of holes as close together as possible. 3.) Drill another line of holes parallel to the first line, getting as close as possible. The holes will not align side by side, but diagonally so that there is less material between the holes and less space between the parallel centerlines. 4.) Continue this pattern to the width and length desired. 5.) Without regard to spoils, flood the perforated area with water, hoping it might partially penetrate the hardpan from the sides, even if for only a shallow amount. Leave for an extended period. 6.) After the water has been absorbed as much as will happen and the remainder has evaporated from the holes, employ the backhoe in the area. The cylindrical cavities should have created fairly thin vertical walls which have been further weakened by at least some small degree of water penetration. Perhaps the backhoe would now be strong enough to break through whatever remaining material there is still in its original position.

Now time is not an issue, I've got time. We just want to know if this'll work. Also, as much as we'd like to blast, we live in places where we'd get penned up for blastin'.

So what do you guys think? Pros, Cons, other thoughts?

 

[Cliff_Johns]

Sounds like mortising wood with a drill bit and a chisel. Sounds like a good idea.
Cliff

 

[RobS]

How thick and how deep is your hardpan layer? You might be surprised how well the hoe will handle it. I've got a layer about eight inches thick and about two feet down. Once I've scratched through it and removed most of the soil from above it (easy digging in sandy soil), my hoe will shatter right through the layer. Much quicker than the method you described.

I have had a couple areas where the water tends to pool at the surface. I used my hoe to dig through the hardpan (great backhoe practice), then backfill and the surface water magically goes away. That hardpan sure is nasty stuff /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[RonR]

Adding to your list, you could eat three double-cheeseburgers before you start digging to add more weight to the tractor! HAH!

I tried to dig a trench of sorts using just my PHD. I figured if I dug a series of post holes end to end, I could dig them out with a hand shovel easily. Bottom line--it didn't work. I kept breaking through to the old holes. I gave up on that idea and used a ripping shank.

Have you tried to use a single, deep ripper shank to break through the hardpan? If it worked, that would be faster than eating cheeseburgers and drilling holes......

Just my two cents.
Ron

 

[Tom_H]

This pan is almost rock. It starts at anywhere from 1 ft down to 5 ft down. It's anywhere from 4 FEET to 16 FEET thick. The top is silica cemented durapan, below that is claypan. The durapan is TOTALLY water impermeable, the claypan so tightly packed it's 99.9% impermeable. Tractors don't rip it, only dozers. Most people who rip here use a CAT D11-R with 8 ft. shanks. It's $5k just for transportation & permits, then the time on the rig.

Having the auger slip back into nearby holes is a concern, probably necessitating placing the holes further apart. I know hand digging would be impossible. I just wonder whether this would loosen things up enough for the backhoe to be effective.

 

[HoggyB]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( This pan is almost rock. It starts at anywhere from 1 ft down to 5 ft down. It's anywhere from 4 FEET to 16 FEET thick. The top is silica cemented durapan, below that is claypan. The durapan is TOTALLY water impermeable, the claypan so tightly packed it's 99.9% impermeable. Tractors don't rip it, only dozers. Most people who rip here use a CAT D11-R with 8 ft. shanks. It's $5k just for transportation & permits, then the time on the rig. )</font>

Wow, I thought our soil was a PITA.

Don't they call water The Universal Solvent?

I've used water to help soften up DG when digging postholes in the summertime when the stuff is next to impossible: start the hole about 3" deep (if you're lucky), fill with water, let it sit, clean it out, repeat.

Anyway, I think your idea is worth a shot.

Hog