Can anyone post some pictures of hills

   / Can anyone post some pictures of hills #1  

suttles

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
27
I was reading on one of the threads about mowing on hills.
Someone posted a picture of a 17 degree hill.

This was not very steep. I am new at using a bush hog.
Monday I am going to the tractor store to buy what ever they have for a tiltmeter.
They did have something but not the same thing that is on the internet.
I would really like to see what 15 degrees looks like if anyone else could post some pictures.
Our 10 acres was part of a dairy farm and has been farmed over.
When we bought it last Jan. we had to moved some old fence lines. Where the cattle either walked the fence or these fields were plowed there are small ridges along the fence lines.
These don't feel to good to go over while on a small up and down hill.
I just wondered somethings about feeling like I am over reacting because they look more level until you go over one.
Also sometimes you can't see them and there are little gulies where some of the soil has washed. It is like a small ditch on a hill.
This is also so minor that you can't see it but the tractor will feel to down hill when one wheel going into one of these small drops.
I find that I look at other pastures with people mowing them. When I see others mowing hills steepier than mine then I think I am ok.
Looking at more pictures would be helpful.

Thanks,
Kubota 3130
Kodiac Grizzley bushhog.
 
   / Can anyone post some pictures of hills #2  
You already have the best engineered tilt meter available.
It's that rear mounted pucker oriface on you lower backside.
The steeper the hill, the tighter it puckers.

I would trust my own personal pucker meter before
I would trust some store bought device that only tells me the angle.

That feeling of impending doom you get from your pucker meter
is natures way of saying back off before you hurt yourself.

Pooh Bear
 
   / Can anyone post some pictures of hills #3  
Don't know the angle but it's enough to make me shift my ample weight to counter balance :D
To the BX23's credit, it's not so much as lifted a wheel but going slow definitely helps.....
 

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   / Can anyone post some pictures of hills #4  
Our property has very few level areas. Most is rolling or hilly ground. The steepest area that I mow with the 40D runs parallel with the drive. The tilt-meter says it's only 18 degrees at this point, even at that it really gets your attention.

The back of the dam is most likely the steepest area on the property but I will only mow it running straight up and down as it gives my the willies otherwise.
 

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   / Can anyone post some pictures of hills #5  
I don't have a picture handy, nor am I yet any good at posting them here -- they always come out looking like a postage stamp. At any rate, the first pictures are like my most level place except for directly in front of the garage, the second set is pretty typical of my ground, and I have places that are considerably more tilted.

Your "personal pucker meter" can get accustomed to running off level. Try to pay attention to the wheels and how they are contacting the ground. If one is spinning and not throwing off anything but air, you are headed for some pretty serious trouble.

Mostly, go slow and stay alert to how things feel. Crossing downhill with a load in the loader is probably the spookiest feeling thing to do, but you can lift a wheel going uphill at an angle, too, or simply crossing the slope. I have a Case DX29 tractor that comes in about 2500 lb, then the L114 loader way out front with a grapple adding about 150 lb to the bucket. When doing loader work, I hang about 900 lb of concrete on the 3 point and have 130 lb on each wheel. Even with that, driving over a root or log with an uphill wheel or dropping a downhill wheel into a hole can get the diagonally opposite wheel sucking air.

Keep things low, go slow, keep the ROPS up and the seatbelt buckled. If it starts to go over, DO NOT try to catch yourself or the tractor with your arms. Just pull in your appendages and trust your safety systems. When it all stops moving around, unbuckle, climb out, change your shorts, and then come back and try to figure out how to get the shiny side up again.

FWIW, a typical modern pole barn roof has a 4/12 slope, which is 4 inches of rise for 12 inches of run. A 12/12 pitch is a 100% or 45 degree slope. The 4/12 is the 15 degrees you were talking about. Look at a pole barn roof and compare it to your ground. That's a 33% grade, and considered by most to be beyond the slope on which you can safely and regularly operate a CUT without risk.
 
   / Can anyone post some pictures of hills #6  
PineRidge said:
The tilt-meter says it's only 18 degrees at this point, even at that it really gets your attention.

Mike, I have one place along my frontage to a county road that is a little steeper than your 18º slope. It's covered in gravel at the top. My tractor will slip sideways on the gravel. I always think that if it were the same situation and I was mowing beside a pond dam, I couldn't do it. For example, if you driveway was a dropoff to a stream instead of a flat driveway, you would not dare mow the same way you do now. The situation and location of an 18º slope dictates whether it is safe to mow across or only up and down.
 
   / Can anyone post some pictures of hills #7  
daTeacha said:
Your "personal pucker meter" can get accustomed to running off level.

Hopefully by the time it gets accustomed to running off level
you will have enough experience to know what is safe and what is not.

I used to be afraid to mow a few places on my property.
Now I have learned I can mow those places no problem.
But I still have to do it safely. And there is still a few things I won't do.
If it don't feel safe then don't ignore that feeling.

Pooh Bear
 
   / Can anyone post some pictures of hills #8  
I second that. If it feels unsafe then it probably is. I have about a 15 degree slope in my pasture that my neighbor can mow with his old Oliver, much wider than my tractor. The first time I tried I felt I was going to tip in my Yanmar. Another day I was coming down that slope but was at a diagonal and I had a front tire come up off the ground. Had I not stopped and backed up I'm pretty sure I would have rolled. My tractor is not equipped with a ROPS and the operator platform is pretty crowded, especially with the loader control. I would have had to try to jump to the right, with that control blocking a good portion of the platform. You have to do what is safe for your tractor. I have learned with mine not to go sideways on that slope and to back it up the slope and come down it straight. I have always thought of my property as pancake flat, but it is not. I have 2 slopes steep enough to give me pause on a tractor. You can't see ruts or bumps on my slope either due to it being pasture and not mowed like a lawn.
 
   / Can anyone post some pictures of hills #9  
I bought one of the tilt meters off of TBN here and it is really nice. Well built, easy to read and provides a good reference for what is "safe"
http://www.tractorbynet.com/articles/02tm.htm

However, agree with some of the others here - matter of what you are comfortable with - PoohBear is spot on with his post. Although a tilt-meter can give you a good reference for the slope you are on, need to rely on YOUR own comfort level and experience. A tilt meter can show you that you are "relatively" safe on a slope. But all it takes is a hidden large rock under the high side back tire, or, a hole on the low side to make that 10 to 15 deg slope, 20 or 25 deg on the tractor - most often while bush hogging.

Eddie
 
   / Can anyone post some pictures of hills #10  
I used to be a helicopter instructor pilot, and two things I learned doing that dangerous activity also apply to operating a tractor on a slope.

1) A new "pilot" (tractor operator) may be very cautious at first - sometimes to the point of underusing the capabilities of the machine. However, after a while, they often become complacent (or even overconfident), to the point of exceeding the limitations of the machine. Enventually, given enough experience, most pilots gain the ability to almost become one with the machine, without ever forgetting that it will bite you if you don't respect it. When you reach that point, your "pucker factor" becomes a pretty good judge. But almost every "old timer" can tell you some story about the time their overconfidence either caused them to have an accident, or how they narrowly avoided such an event. (I used to refer to those incidents as "pucker factor recalibration"...) You can learn a lot by watching someone who is skilled operate your tractor. Just don't make the mistake of thinking you can do everything the same way they do... They've developed that "control touch" through experience...

2) There is a thing called "dynamic rollover" that affects all machinery operating on slopes. I'm going to try to give a quick explanation.

Visualize a tall, skinny triangle sitting on the slope of a hill, with a weight on the top. That's an exaggerated "picture" of your tractor, with the spot where the wheels tough the ground being the bottom corners of the triangle, and the "center of mass" of the tractor (probably just about the operator's seat height) is the weight at the top of the triangle.

So, what does "maximum slope" capability mean? If you tilt the triangle (place it on a slope), you reach a point where a vertical line drawn straight down from the center of mass (called the CG line - for Center of Gravity) falls outside the base of the triangle. At that point, the triangle will tip over. Thus, the "maximum slope" capability is the maximum angle where the CG line still remains inside the triangle's legs (tractor's wheels).

On a "normal operation" slope, the CG line falls somewhere between the tractor's wheels. On an "excessive" slope, the CG line falls outside the wheels, and the tractor will roll over - operator skills have nothing to do with this. It's just the law of gravity.

Going back to our skinny triangle with the weight on top for a minute: Imagine that you rock the triangle from side to side (as if driving over uneven ground). It's not hard to visualize that at some point, the weight up on top develops enough momentum as it moves to the side that it develops enough force to cause the entire triangle to tip over. This is called "dynamic rollover", and it can cause a tractor to roll over on a slope that is less than the "maximum slope" angle.

Imagine you are operating on a slight slope (downhill to your right) that is well within the maximum slope ratings for your equipment. Just for the sake of argument, let's assume you are operating with a heavy load raised high in the FEL (exaggerated conditions). As you drive along, your left front tire rolls into a rut, causing the FEL to swing slightly to the left. You are well within the slope limits, and the swinging force of the FEL is countered by the tractor's weight, the low center of gravity, the wide wheel stance, etc. Just as you start to catch your breath, your left wheel come up out of the rut, and your right wheel drops down into that same rut, but it's a bit deeper here. The loaded FEL begins to swing back to the right, but faster than it did to the left because of the abruptness of the change from left-side-low to right-side-low. Technically, even with this additional "slope" added to the natural slope of the hill, you're still within the "maximum slope" operation area as stated by your manufacturer. This time, however, the side-to-side force generated by the "heavy and high" load in the FEL as it swings back to the right builds momentum to a point where it overwhelms the tractor's design, and it rolls over onto its right side.

In my example, all the conditions were right for a dynamic rollover, even on nearly level ground. But dynamic rollover can occur at much lower CGs (heavy and "low" bucket) if the slope is steeper (say within a few degrees of your maximum), or if the "roll rate" is faster, or if the operator turns "into the slope" (to the left in our hypothetical situation).

There are some factors that can amplify the "rate of rotation" (or the abruptness of the "tilting force") over which you have little or no control. Things such as ruts, ridges, or berms (especially if nearly parallel or diagonal to your line of movement) are beyond your control, but you can anticipate them and work more slowly and carefully.

There are other things that are solely within the operator's control, such as speed of movement, where to carry a load (low vs. high FEL bucket, etc.), steering inputs (such as sudden uphill turns), and the decision to drive cross-slope versus up/down-slope.

Just as in learning to fly helicopters, the secret is to start off slowly, be more cautious when operating on uneven terrain, and always operate well within the safety margins of both the equipment and the operator. For most of us, the operator's limitations far exceed those of the equipment.

As one of my old instructors used to say:
"Better to be on the ground, - wishing you were in the air,
than to be in the air - wishing you were on the ground!"
 

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