Can I legally tow a 20,000 lb. trailer with my F-450?

[BarryinMN]

Firedog is spot on. Everything is gross weights.

Actual weights don't count. Until it's time to write an overweight ticket.

Venturing over the 26K line without a CDL drivers license in his state in a farm tagged APPROPRIATE VEHICLE may be possible. Only problem is that 1 tons limited trailer towing capacity. Driving an overloaded vehicle combination is still a violation - farm tags are not a guaranteed get out of jail free card. Pleading ignorance might work or it might not.

I also see GN dually tandems in auction parking lots. Most are farm tagged. Landscaper types are stickered up: DOT'd, IFTA'd, etc. clearly commmercial. The DPS inspectors at auction barns usually are more interested in pulling fuel samples looking for red dye. Construction eq auctions are more intense - portable scales, etc.

Last week at a large farm show I overheard a conversation about any pickup pulling anything was pulled over & inspected. MN may be gathering data to fast follow the onerous California regulatory burden.

The window of opportunity where SRW pickups pull heavy GN's under the radar for hire ie: "hot shot" loads is rapidly closing.

Good luck.

 

[xxxsandman]

What I don't understand is you guys say it's based off adding the GVWR of the truck and the GVWR of the trailer. So a truck with a 10,000lb GVWR and a trailer with a 14,000lb GVWR would total 25,000lb. Under the 26,000lb CDL requirement. Fine. But that rig would never weigh 25,000lbs, even with the trailer at 14k max. Let's say the truck weighs 7,000lbs empty plus the 14k of trailer and cargo, that's 21,000.

Why would they base it off something that is impossible to achieve? However the GCWR of the truck is possible to achieve with the proper trailer. The GCWR takes the trailers weight into account. Lot's of 1 tons have a GCWR around 23,000.

And Firedog you couldn't even drive the Kenworth empty without a CDL, because it has a GCWR WAY over 26,000.

You guys are right, it's about ratings, NOT actual weight, but I think it's the trucks GCWR used to determine the CDL requirement, not the sum of the truck and trailers GVWR.

Like I said, I will find out from the man, I just have to hunt one down. I want to know.

 

[jmfox]

These last posts demonstrate clarity regarding CDL being controlled by rating rather than actual weight. As to different states, it seems to me the minimum (federal) requirement for trucks with trailers is GCWR more than 26,000 lbs where the trailer component has a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. Those states that simply adopt the minimum standard, would allow a GCWR up to 36,000 lbs where the trailer component is not more than 10,000 lbs.

jmf

 

[jmfox]

Let's say the truck weighs 7,000lbs empty plus the 14k of trailer and cargo, that's 21,000.

When it comes to license requirements, a vehicle's actual weight is not relevant. It is its capability. As to the truck weight in your example it is the maximum weight it can carry 7,000 + 3,000= 10,000. This is the trucks capability, and I also think it's real.

jmf

 

[civesnedfield]

These last posts demonstrate clarity regarding CDL being controlled by rating rather than actual weight. As to different states, it seems to me the minimum (federal) requirement for trucks with trailers is GCWR more than 26,000 lbs where the trailer component has a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. Those states that simply adopt the minimum standard, would allow a GCWR up to 36,000 lbs where the trailer component is not more than 10,000 lbs.

jmf

You are absolutly correct. The Federal Gov't does not care how much weight the vehicle is carrying for CDL requirments. The GVWR is used to establish a guideline as to what vehicles require a CDL.

I have posted this link before but I will do it again: Commercial Driver's License Program (CDL/CDLIS) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
It explains what class CDL is required for what weight rating of vehicle.


Let me see if I can explan it simply.(I will exagarate GVWR)
Case 1:
You have a F550 -GVWR 26,001 # ----You need a Class B CDL

Case 2:
Same F550 towing a trailer with GWVR 10,000# ---- You need a Class B CDL

Case 3:
Same F550 towing a trailer with GWVR 10,001# ----You need a Class A CDL

Case 4:
You have a F450 with GVWR 23,000# ----- No CDL required

Case 5:
Same F450 towing a trailer with GVWR 10,000# ----No CDL required

Case 6:
Same F450 towing a trailer with GVWR 10,001# ---- Class A CDL required

Case 7:
You have a F350 with GWVR 15,000# towing a trailer with GWVR 10000#---No CDL required

Case 8:
Same F350 towing a trailer with GVWR 10,001 # ----- No CDL required

Case 9:
Same F350 towing a trailer with GVWR 11,001# ------Class A CDL required. --This is due to the wording "Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds" in the Class A language requirments.


Yes this is a very confusing topic. You need to look at what you are planning to drive and tow, then decide if you have the proper license to do it.


I did not address the issue of the towing capacity and this has no relevancy to the CDL requirments. It is a totally different issue that is regulated by it's own set of rules. The two issues need to be dealt with seperately this will ease the confusion only slightly.

Please rember that the GVWR's of the vehicles used is totally made up for demonstration purposes only. I have no idea what the GVWR of the stated vehicles actually are. Please also note that I did not intend to offend any Ford fans by understating GVWR's if that is what I did. Please also note that I did not intent to offend anyone that is not a Ford fan, Quite franlky I drive a Nissan and am not a Ford fan myself.

I hope this helps to end some of the confusion, not to cloud it some more. CHECK WITH YOUR STATE DOT. They will be able to tell you exactly what is required. Rember thought if your State says it's ok and you cross the State line ALL BETS ARE OFF !!!!

 

[Z-Michigan]

At last I think we have some clarity! It all kinda, sorta, almost makes sense to me now!

Case 9:
Same F350 towing a trailer with GVWR 11,001# ------Class A CDL required. --This is due to the wording "Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds" in the Class A language requirments.

I looked at the federal link and I understand how this works under federal law and most states. However, when I look up my state's info:

SOS - Who Needs a Commercial Driver License (CDL)?

It says that the requirement only applies if the GCWR is 26,001 or higher. So in my home state (and perhaps no other state) it appears I can legally pull a 14k GVWR trailer with a 14k rated F350 (or whatever) as long as the tow vehicle (i.e. F350) has a rated GCWR under 26,001. All 1-tons that I know of have a rated GCWR less than 26k, though get up to an F450 or 550 and it may be more than 26k. If the tow vehicle doesn't have a rated GCWR, only then do you add up the GVWR of each vehicle to determine if you're over or under 26k - again, it may be only in Michigan that you get out of this if the tow vehicle has a rated GCWR. I guess I will need to pay close attention if I do any out of state driving with a big trailer and our pickup.

 

[civesnedfield]

At last I think we have some clarity! It all kinda, sorta, almost makes sense to me now!



I looked at the federal link and I understand how this works under federal law and most states. However, when I look up my state's info:

SOS - Who Needs a Commercial Driver License (CDL)?

It says that the requirement only applies if the GCWR is 26,001 or higher. So in my home state (and perhaps no other state) it appears I can legally pull a 14k GVWR trailer with a 14k rated F350 (or whatever) as long as the tow vehicle (i.e. F350) has a rated GCWR under 26,001. All 1-tons that I know of have a rated GCWR less than 26k, though get up to an F450 or 550 and it may be more than 26k. If the tow vehicle doesn't have a rated GCWR, only then do you add up the GVWR of each vehicle to determine if you're over or under 26k - again, it may be only in Michigan that you get out of this if the tow vehicle has a rated GCWR. I guess I will need to pay close attention if I do any out of state driving with a big trailer and our pickup.

Z I read it and I agree with what you have interpreted. Looks like MI understands that you really do not need the CDL to tow a trailer with a pick up.

 

[jmfox]

It says that the requirement only applies if the GCWR is 26,001 or higher. So in my home state (and perhaps no other state) it appears I can legally pull a 14k GVWR trailer with a 14k rated F350 (or whatever) as long as the tow vehicle (i.e. F350) has a rated GCWR under 26,001.

Interesting. So, no CDL required, but at 28,000 lbs. you would be guilty of exceeding the recommended weight for the vehicle. Is your tow vehicles GCWR stamped on your tow vehicle?

jmf

 

[xxxsandman]

I talked to a lady at the Oklahoma CDL office in OKC and she has cleared up the CDL issue for me in Oklahoma.

In Oklahoma it appears the GCWR is figured by adding the trucks GVWR AND trailers GVWR together. It's NOT based off the manufactures GCWR of the truck, like I thought. This seems stupid to me, as a 1/2 ton truck could legally pull a bigger trailer then a 1 ton truck without a CDL. But that's the way she said it is.

Since my sticker is missing on my door I'm not 100% certain what my trucks GVWR is, but I've found it to be listed as 11,000lbs on the Internet. That means a trailer with a 15,000 GVWR would be the biggest I could tow without a CDL in Oklahoma.

However my truck is farm tagged. I asked her about that and she said if it's used within 150 miles of the farm, driving by the farmer (me), and used to haul farm equipment or goods, there is NO CDL required, no matter what the weight!

So you guys are right, all those 1 tons running around with 20k gooseneck trailers are asking for a ticket if they don't have a CDL or farm tag. The funny thing is I see them everyday around my part of the country. I never see or hear of anyone getting checked or bothered around here. Might just be my part of the country.

 

[civesnedfield]

See I knew that everyone would finally understand this.

And the moral to the story is: It does not matter what all of us here tell you, Talk to your State DOT office. But do rember once you cross the State line, All Bets are Off