Can someone explain to me why supersonic business flight didn't work out?

[RoyJackson]

You wouldn't think there'd be a market for private jets either, but come to any college football town airport on a Saturday in fall and you'd be amazed at how many private jets there are.

I personally know of people that bring their kids to college in the fall, home and back to school at Thanksgiving and Christmas, spring break and back, and then home in the spring. That's 8 trips on a private jet for one kid (and maybe a couple of their friends) and $6-10K per trip. Then throw in a few football game weekends for 6 more trip legs. It's almost shocking. That's $140,000 on transportation for one family. And who knows where else they go without the kid??

And all tax-deductible "business trips", I'd wager...
I have no problem with folks owning private jets, except those who espouse "global warming" and fly solo (other than pilot and crew)...that's not politics, that's hypocrisy

 

[plowhog]

Naysayers against SS passenger flight seem to overlook the bold and dramatic advancements in aviation technology since the Concorde was designed. Modern airliners have advanced significantly, so why couldn't a modern SST do the same?

Compared to a turbojet engine, a modern day turbofan engine uses up to 80% less fuel. It is also quieter and has fewer emissions. Turbofan engine variants are now used almost exclusively by commercial airlines. For obvious reasons.

Comparing modern day possibilities of SS flight versus the Concorde experience isn't really fair. The Concorde used turbojet engines-- not at all feasible nowadays, maybe also not back then. Back then, it seemed to be a project driven as much by national pride as business viability.

Add reduced weight from more advanced materials, added efficiency, safety and sophistication from computerized flight controls, and ...... more. I think it's a viable business segment for "upper crust" travelers.

 

[JasperFrank]

Got to self tour the Concorde that was on the USS Intrepid in New York. I'm 6 foot, 1 inch tall. My first impression was how cramped the interior was. I could not even stand upright in the cabin. "Headroom in the central aisle was barely six ft (1.8 m) and the leather seats were unusually narrow." - taken from an internet article.
I was the only person in the plane and still felt slightly claustrophobic. Just imagining being in that tiny space with 100 other passengers, gave me a sense that I would have been miserable for the three and 1/2 hour flight time.
Overture, from the concept renderings, appears to be just as cramped.
With all the advances in virtual conferencing, I can only see the Boom concept appealing to persons that have to be somewhere in the flesh.

 

[KennyG]

I don't think the overall time savings for trans-Atlantic flights made the cost acceptable. As noted above, the real attractive routes would be trans-Pacific. However, the fuel load required, without some real technical advances, will be a problem.

 

[plowhog]

Q- Know how to make a million dollars in aviation?
A- Start with two million dollars and start an aviation business!

It's an old joke. Probably needs to be freshened up to make a billion and start with two billion ...

 

[deserteagle71]

Unless someone figures out a way to stop sonic booms, don't see how this would be feasible other than for cities on the coast.

I used to be stationed at the Naval Air Station in Fallon, Nevada - now the Navy's Top Gun school. The Base has a "Supersonic Operating Area" about 80 miles from Fallon where the pilots train. Access to this area (it is huge) is not restricted - I drive through the area and ride my dirt bike and quad there several times a year and I love watching the planes as they dogfight and maneuver overhead. But when the sonic booms go off...most people have no idea how loud that is - you can FEEL the impact of the boom. I don't think people would put up with those booms over the continental USA.

 

[RoyJackson]

I used to be stationed at the Naval Air Station in Fallon, Nevada

Ahhh, Fallon...first time I drank Coors (which wasn't sold east of the Mississippi back then) and gambled in Reno...

 

[Sigarms]

Q- Know how to make a million dollars in aviation?
A- State and federal funding apparently...

Fixed it for you.

 

[Ken45101]

I am not sure if the sonic booms were the real cause, or the excuse.

I was a co-op at the GE engine plant during the development era (I was a lab tech in component development) and worked on component testing for the GE4 engine, the U.S. entry into the U.S. side of the competition. It was recognized that the market would not support more than one supersonic plane and the U.S. lost out to the British/French consortium. THEN our government decided that supersonic transports (SST) flying over the country would create too many complaints and passed the restrictions.

With the restrictions and very high cost, the Concorde became more of a national pride issue than a successful business venture.

On a more successful note, we also worked on the development of the TF39 engine, which flew the C5A Air Force cargo plane. Gosh, that's been over 50 years ago!

Ken

 

[dstig1]

When I was in grad school in Santa Barbara, we would get the sonic booms from the space shuttle landing as Edwards AFB. The first time you heard that it was WTF was that?!?!?! It rattled the windows with 2 loud BAMs, one right after each other. BAMBAM And Edwards is not all that close to SB... If that was happening all the time, there would be torches and pitchforks out, fer sure. I can see why the sonic boom issue is one of the big killers. I know they are working on it, and perhaps with all the newer technologies others have mentioned, they will get to something viable. Costs are the other big issue as noted. There is an additional amount that people will pay for the time savings, but it is not infinite... Beat that and the boom issue and you should have something. Not an easy problem by any means

 

[bcp]

Is killing the boom the key to supersonic air travel?

Three firms are vying to be the first to reintroduce commercial supersonic flight in the next decade.

www.bbc.com

Bruce

 

[JasperFrank]

"Boondoggle" is a word that needs to be reinserted, in common usage, when ever we see these grand plans.
10 Minutes of looking into Boom's business plan; what I can see of it, how it is funded, and how the CG renderings don't even fit the "glowing," press releases, the already blown past deadlines, lack of more than one "Baby Boomer," when the time line says there should be 10 or more already made and bespoken for, has all the markers of a "Techno-Scam."
I can't blame Honda for enjoining this, cause, heck, why not get a better run-way at half the cost for their own production facility at Piedmont Triad. Blake Scholl will, have collected, and Converted what he can in to fungible assets and be very far away when this falls apart.
This is how it works. if no one does anything CRIMINAL, its all still okay for everybody.

 

[tallyho8]

When I hear anyone say, "this will never work", it always reminds me of those who said, "men will never fly", "you can't sail around the earth, you will fall off the edge", etc.

Of course, to this day, there are still millions of people who believe that man has never stepped foot on the moon.

 

[bcp]

Of course, to this day, there are still millions of people who believe that man has never stepped foot on the moon.

No foot had touched the moon, just boots



Bruce

 

[Oaktree]

When I hear anyone say, "this will never work", it always reminds me of those who said, "men will never fly"

While we may have invented machines that fly, humans still can't fly on their own.

 

[Sigarms]

When I hear anyone say, "this will never work", it always reminds me of those who said, "men will never fly", "you can't sail around the earth, you will fall off the edge", etc.

Of course, to this day, there are still millions of people who believe that man has never stepped foot on the moon.

It's not a question of if some technology could work, but more a question is if the technology applied to society is economically feasible?

That's a broad statement I understand, but for what it cost to put a man on the moon, exactly what was the return on investment since what, 1969?

We have billionaires now that can spend exactly how much time in space at what cost?

My only point is heck yeah, commercial flights could fly past the sound barrier, but at the end of the day, is it really worth it?

Interesting read...

apollo-11-moon-mission-cost

I'm glad I won't be around for when we can use a transporter like on the Enterprise NCC 1701 LOL

That said, the money spent on military technology generally permeates to civilian technology.

 

[Oaktree]

That's a broad statement I understand, but for what it cost to put a man on the moon, exactly what was the return on investment since what, 1969?

Well, we got Tang out of it, what more could you ask for?

 

[MossRoad]

Well, we got Tang out of it, what more could you ask for?

Freeze dried food!

 

[MossRoad]

Velcro!

 

[the old grind]

Gray water made potable in house.