Backhoe Can you run backhoe on bx18?
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MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
BX1830 works fine, 1500 is too small. Need to use the Woods BH6000.
Tom_H
Veteran Member
First off, just so the models aren't confused, there is no BX15 or BX18. There used to be a BX1800 which has been replaced by the BX1830; each has an 18 hp engine, but less hp at the PTO. The BX1500 has a 15 hp engine and less hp at the PTO. The BX2200 was replaced by the BX2230; each has a 22 hp engine with 16.7 hp at the PTO. The BX22 had a proprietary front end loader and backhoe attached; it was replaced by the BX23. Each of these has a 22 hp engine with 16.7 hp at the PTO. (To date, "BX" followed by 2 digits indicates that the tractor comes with a proprietary backhoe; "BX" followed by 4 digits does not.)
In the class of tractors known as sub-compact utility tractors (sub-CUT), there are 3 which have proprietary backhoes: Kubota BX23, Massey Ferguson GC2310, and Cub Cadet 5234D (CC also has 2 gasoline versions). Also in this class and engine size, but without backhoes are the John Deere 4010 and New Holland TZ24DA. (All 5 manufacturers also have models with less hp, but no bh.)
There are several 3 point hitch backhoes which CAN be attached to this class tractor, BUT there is a consensus that they work poorly for a multiplicity of reasons.
Last week Woods released its Groundbreaker X BH6000, a subframe mounted bh designed for this class tractor. Wallenstein is said to be developing one as well. (I am not certain whether the Wallenstein is a completely new backhoe or whether they are taking an existing model and are developing a new sub-frame for quick attach to the sub-CUTs.) There has been much heated discussion on this board as to how well these units will work. MANY of us here have been waiting for some time for these unit to come out and we still are waiting quite anxiously for the first reports to trickle in from fellow TBN'ers as to how well either one actually works.
I have not heard of the Woods unit being able to work with the BX1830. In the post above, Neil Messick says it will. I assume that Neil is basing this statement solely on Woods specs. that the bh is for 18-24 hp tractors. Supposedly, Woods' engineers tested it out on a number of different sub-CUTs. None of us on this board has yet purchased one of these units, tested it, then come back here to report about it. I'm considering one for my BX2200; many of my fellow TBN'ers advise strongly against it. There is no way I would consider attaching a bh to one of the 18 hp units. Perhaps it would work in a sand dune, but I just cannot see how it would have enough power to dig in more normal conditions. I have harder than average soil and I'm nervous about even the 22 hp tractor being able to power a bh in my soil. Even if I had softer soil, I would not personally consider anything less than a 22 hp tractor for this (even though it is small) backhoe.
I'd strongly suggest that you go back to the archives on this board and read the threads about sub-CUTs and backhoes and read as much as you can elsewhere before making any decision. It would be sad to invest multiple thousands and then discover that it didn't work. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif You may want to do what many others of us here are doing-waiting for reports to show up on this board!! Good luck with your research and decision.
P.S. Here is a link to the most recent thread. As you scroll down through it, you will find links to two earlier and longer threads. All have much food for thought.
Woods bh for BX's
In the class of tractors known as sub-compact utility tractors (sub-CUT), there are 3 which have proprietary backhoes: Kubota BX23, Massey Ferguson GC2310, and Cub Cadet 5234D (CC also has 2 gasoline versions). Also in this class and engine size, but without backhoes are the John Deere 4010 and New Holland TZ24DA. (All 5 manufacturers also have models with less hp, but no bh.)
There are several 3 point hitch backhoes which CAN be attached to this class tractor, BUT there is a consensus that they work poorly for a multiplicity of reasons.
Last week Woods released its Groundbreaker X BH6000, a subframe mounted bh designed for this class tractor. Wallenstein is said to be developing one as well. (I am not certain whether the Wallenstein is a completely new backhoe or whether they are taking an existing model and are developing a new sub-frame for quick attach to the sub-CUTs.) There has been much heated discussion on this board as to how well these units will work. MANY of us here have been waiting for some time for these unit to come out and we still are waiting quite anxiously for the first reports to trickle in from fellow TBN'ers as to how well either one actually works.
I have not heard of the Woods unit being able to work with the BX1830. In the post above, Neil Messick says it will. I assume that Neil is basing this statement solely on Woods specs. that the bh is for 18-24 hp tractors. Supposedly, Woods' engineers tested it out on a number of different sub-CUTs. None of us on this board has yet purchased one of these units, tested it, then come back here to report about it. I'm considering one for my BX2200; many of my fellow TBN'ers advise strongly against it. There is no way I would consider attaching a bh to one of the 18 hp units. Perhaps it would work in a sand dune, but I just cannot see how it would have enough power to dig in more normal conditions. I have harder than average soil and I'm nervous about even the 22 hp tractor being able to power a bh in my soil. Even if I had softer soil, I would not personally consider anything less than a 22 hp tractor for this (even though it is small) backhoe.
I'd strongly suggest that you go back to the archives on this board and read the threads about sub-CUTs and backhoes and read as much as you can elsewhere before making any decision. It would be sad to invest multiple thousands and then discover that it didn't work. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif You may want to do what many others of us here are doing-waiting for reports to show up on this board!! Good luck with your research and decision.
P.S. Here is a link to the most recent thread. As you scroll down through it, you will find links to two earlier and longer threads. All have much food for thought.
Woods bh for BX's
surfran
Platinum Member
I would think that the backhoe would work equally as well on an BX1800 as BX2200. Isn't the backhoe performance primarily determined by the Hydraulic pump flow and pressures? If so they have the same exact pumps actually the BX1500 does as well I think.
Granted there would probably be some difference in load on the load to the engine during running, but if I understand what others with BH have said they typically don't run at full throttle when using the BH.
Again, I don't know this as fact, just suspect this would be the case.
As for working on any of these, Kubota does not recommend them thus I would assume they would be unauthorized attachements, so I would also assume that any warranty work relative to possible damaged caused from the BH would run the potential of being denied.
So if it were me, I would first look at trading in for a BX22/BX23 or wait until warranty was not an issue and take my chances if the cost difference was too great to trade.
Good luck and keep us all posted if you decide to try one of these on your unit.
I did see my local dealer had a Land Pride mounted to a BX2230 a month or so ago, but I drove by there today and did not notice the unit on the lot.
Granted there would probably be some difference in load on the load to the engine during running, but if I understand what others with BH have said they typically don't run at full throttle when using the BH.
Again, I don't know this as fact, just suspect this would be the case.
As for working on any of these, Kubota does not recommend them thus I would assume they would be unauthorized attachements, so I would also assume that any warranty work relative to possible damaged caused from the BH would run the potential of being denied.
So if it were me, I would first look at trading in for a BX22/BX23 or wait until warranty was not an issue and take my chances if the cost difference was too great to trade.
Good luck and keep us all posted if you decide to try one of these on your unit.
I did see my local dealer had a Land Pride mounted to a BX2230 a month or so ago, but I drove by there today and did not notice the unit on the lot.
Junkman
Super Member
Land Pride "what"?????? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
surfran
Platinum Member
Sorry Junkman, should have said Backhoe.....guess nobody else reads minds either /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Tom_H
Veteran Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I...think...the backhoe would work equally as well on an BX1800 as BX2200. Isn't the backhoe performance primarily determined by the Hydraulic pump flow and pressures? If so they have the same exact pumps actually the BX1500 does as well I think. Granted there would probably be some difference in load)</font>
O.K., that makes sense. I would guess that a smaller engine with less output could build up the same pressure but that it might take longer time for the pressure to build. So on breakout in hard soil it might take longer for the bucket to break a hard chunk of material away from the substrate. As you imply, this could be compensated for by running the smaller engine at higher RPM. You make some good points! Anyone out there ever run a bh on an 18 or 15 hp tractor?
O.K., that makes sense. I would guess that a smaller engine with less output could build up the same pressure but that it might take longer time for the pressure to build. So on breakout in hard soil it might take longer for the bucket to break a hard chunk of material away from the substrate. As you imply, this could be compensated for by running the smaller engine at higher RPM. You make some good points! Anyone out there ever run a bh on an 18 or 15 hp tractor?
Junkman
Super Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Sorry Junkman, should have said Backhoe.....guess nobody else reads minds either /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>
I wasn't aware that Land Pride was making a backhoe attachment for the BX series tractors. I was under the impression that Woods was the first manufacturer to offer a aftermarket backhoe that was sized for the Kubota BX. That is what prompted my question.
I wasn't aware that Land Pride was making a backhoe attachment for the BX series tractors. I was under the impression that Woods was the first manufacturer to offer a aftermarket backhoe that was sized for the Kubota BX. That is what prompted my question.
surfran
Platinum Member
I had posted this in one of the other backhoe posts, but here is the link to the landpride site and I think this is the one that was on the BX2230 I saw at my local dealer in May.
Landpride Backhoe
I don't think anyone commented much on this unit so I assume nobody has any knowledge or experience much with it, but thought I would throw it out as I saw it mounted so I took a quick look compared to the BX23 and like the fit and finish better with the 23, but for many like myself the aftermarkets do potentially offer an option besides upgrading the tractor (which I would rather do if I could justify a backhoe /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Landpride Backhoe
I don't think anyone commented much on this unit so I assume nobody has any knowledge or experience much with it, but thought I would throw it out as I saw it mounted so I took a quick look compared to the BX23 and like the fit and finish better with the 23, but for many like myself the aftermarkets do potentially offer an option besides upgrading the tractor (which I would rather do if I could justify a backhoe /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Tom_H
Veteran Member
SURFRAN,
The stats. on your link page don't give the weight. I couldn't tell what model JD it's on but it looks like a small CUT, not a subCUT. How big did the unit look? The stats page said it connects to the 3ph but some frame kits are available; any idea whether it was attached to the BX by 3ph alone or by sub-frame? Also, do you know whether it's powered by the tractor's hydraulics or if it has its own hydraulic pump powered by the PTO?
The stats. on your link page don't give the weight. I couldn't tell what model JD it's on but it looks like a small CUT, not a subCUT. How big did the unit look? The stats page said it connects to the 3ph but some frame kits are available; any idea whether it was attached to the BX by 3ph alone or by sub-frame? Also, do you know whether it's powered by the tractor's hydraulics or if it has its own hydraulic pump powered by the PTO?
jrlichina
Platinum Member
It is a 3-point mount. They have some brackets that attach to the rear of the frame that are part of their "stabilizer System" that helps take weight off the 3-point arms. They were suppose to be working on a subframe mount but I haven't heard anything more on that in a long time. For now the Woods is the way to go.
Attachments
jrlichina
Platinum Member
surfran
Platinum Member
Tom,
jrlichina is correct it appeared to be a modified attachement to the 3 point. I did not look it over very carefully just mainly noted it next to the BX23 and did a 3 minute look over. I did not notice the separate pump that jrlichina noted, but wasn't looking that carefully as stated above.
jrlichina is correct it appeared to be a modified attachement to the 3 point. I did not look it over very carefully just mainly noted it next to the BX23 and did a 3 minute look over. I did not notice the separate pump that jrlichina noted, but wasn't looking that carefully as stated above.
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
I have a few of these on order, I will take pictures and get more specifics for folks as soon as we have an actual product to beat on.
Yes, the Hoe will work equally as well on a BX1830 or BX2230. Their hydraulic systems are exactly the same and I doubt the 4 HP will make a noticable difference when running the Hoe.
I don't think landpride is offering anything, that Hoe in the link was from a Compact, not a sub compact.
Who ever is offering these things, it had better be done right or else there are going to be alot of busted sub compacts around. I said it in another thread, but given the high resale value of this kind of tractor it might be worth your time to sell a existing machine and just get a BX23. I figure on a BX2230 in my market it would cost about another $1000-1500 more to just get a BX23 than to add a Woods 6000. That gets you a new warrenty and a tractor thats proven.
Neil
Yes, the Hoe will work equally as well on a BX1830 or BX2230. Their hydraulic systems are exactly the same and I doubt the 4 HP will make a noticable difference when running the Hoe.
I don't think landpride is offering anything, that Hoe in the link was from a Compact, not a sub compact.
Who ever is offering these things, it had better be done right or else there are going to be alot of busted sub compacts around. I said it in another thread, but given the high resale value of this kind of tractor it might be worth your time to sell a existing machine and just get a BX23. I figure on a BX2230 in my market it would cost about another $1000-1500 more to just get a BX23 than to add a Woods 6000. That gets you a new warrenty and a tractor thats proven.
Neil
Knute
Silver Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I would think that the backhoe would work equally as well on an BX1800 as BX2200. Isn't the backhoe performance primarily determined by the Hydraulic pump flow and pressures? If so they have the same exact pumps actually the BX1500 does as well I think.)</font>
It's not just the strength of the backhoe but the platform (tractor) it's attached to. If the tractor is to light the backhoe will toss it around instead of digging. If the BX2200 is significantly heavier than the BX1800 (I don't know one way or the other) then it could easily perform much better with the bh.
It's not just the strength of the backhoe but the platform (tractor) it's attached to. If the tractor is to light the backhoe will toss it around instead of digging. If the BX2200 is significantly heavier than the BX1800 (I don't know one way or the other) then it could easily perform much better with the bh.
surfran
Platinum Member
The picture of the link I posted may not be the one I saw, but it was definately a Landpride and the dealer definately had it on a BX2230. So I would say they do make one or the dealer went ahead and mounted one that wasn't specifically made for the BX but still fit.
Well I'm sure if anyone is actually interested in the Land Pride they can contact them.
Well I'm sure if anyone is actually interested in the Land Pride they can contact them.
jrlichina
Platinum Member
LandPride does make one for the BX(3-pont) which is what the pictures I posted were from.
BH1560 & BH1575: Kubota BX1800 - BX2200
Mounting Kit : 340-151A FRAME MOUNT & STAB KIT KUB BX
BH1560/75
Wallenstein Also makes a 4 point mount for their GX600.
The woods is by far the best as it also has the subframe connectors that tie into the loader brackets just like the Kubota version.
BH1560 & BH1575: Kubota BX1800 - BX2200
Mounting Kit : 340-151A FRAME MOUNT & STAB KIT KUB BX
BH1560/75
Wallenstein Also makes a 4 point mount for their GX600.
The woods is by far the best as it also has the subframe connectors that tie into the loader brackets just like the Kubota version.
Here are some similar links:
