JMER817
Platinum Member
Be care now, there are a lot of us "gun guys" on this forum
Car vs SUV safety
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Be care now, there are a lot of us "gun guys" on this forum
Bocephous
Gold Member
A few years ago my wife was driving her older Subaru Forester home from work (after dark) on I-81. A Honda Civic had stalled in the right hand lane and did not have its lights or hazards on. She tried to avoid it as she saw it but still made contact with the left rear of the Honda. She flipped the Subaru in the median at 65mph. It was totalled, she had a small bruise on her shoulder from the seat belt strap. When I looked at the Subie I was amazed at the lack of damage to the main compartment of the car. The front end was much damaged, but the roof area, while scraped up pretty well, was not crushed in the least bit.
Soundguy
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Gale Hawkins
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I have been all over the place on this subject having two 16 year olds starting to drive.
The lightest car I have owned was a 1973 Datsun 1200 couple. It was small enough where I was able to avoid some accidents that I might not in the 2000 Towncar.
It may just depend on the factors in each accident scene. As noted above the Subaru passenger cage is well engineered to protect those inside.
A rolling, flipping stop can be more safe than a sudden stop.
Does anyone have data on different classes of vehicles?
The skills and response of the driver can be a HUGE factor. Getting the kids to focus on all potential risks from all directions at all times is a chore. Just taking the foot off the gas when detecting a potential risk can increase safety.
Tanks are OK but can be more dangerous. Actually the Datsun 1200 was awesome on snow and ice. Dad took mine when I went into the Navy so I bought a twin to it when I out of the Navy because gas was like 60 cents by then and he wanted to keep it. We put nearly 200K on each and never was in an accident but had some close calls.
I would stick with a Subaru or good mileage car is driving long distance daily. The Towncar gets 22 MPG on road trips but it is paid for and in great shape having just redone the frontend and underside including new brakes and shocks at 140K. The son is already 6'3" and to my surprise prefers the Towncar over S-10 Blazer and pick up. They have not been cut loose on the 2003 Escalade because it is the best wheels we own. The daughter likes the height of the Blazer.
The lightest car I have owned was a 1973 Datsun 1200 couple. It was small enough where I was able to avoid some accidents that I might not in the 2000 Towncar.
It may just depend on the factors in each accident scene. As noted above the Subaru passenger cage is well engineered to protect those inside.
A rolling, flipping stop can be more safe than a sudden stop.
Does anyone have data on different classes of vehicles?
The skills and response of the driver can be a HUGE factor. Getting the kids to focus on all potential risks from all directions at all times is a chore. Just taking the foot off the gas when detecting a potential risk can increase safety.
Tanks are OK but can be more dangerous. Actually the Datsun 1200 was awesome on snow and ice. Dad took mine when I went into the Navy so I bought a twin to it when I out of the Navy because gas was like 60 cents by then and he wanted to keep it. We put nearly 200K on each and never was in an accident but had some close calls.
I would stick with a Subaru or good mileage car is driving long distance daily. The Towncar gets 22 MPG on road trips but it is paid for and in great shape having just redone the frontend and underside including new brakes and shocks at 140K. The son is already 6'3" and to my surprise prefers the Towncar over S-10 Blazer and pick up. They have not been cut loose on the 2003 Escalade because it is the best wheels we own. The daughter likes the height of the Blazer.
westcliffe01
Veteran Member
There is the question of the outcome of a collision between a 7000lb ladder frame truck and a frameless 2500lb compact car. Depending on speed, one can be pretty sure how that is going to go, since the body on frame trucks in the US are not designed to be "friendly" in a collision. That is not true for passenger cars in Europe. The heavier the car, the larger the crumple zones have to be to protect smaller vehicles.
Every one of us who chooses to "go big" is adding to the safety problem and not deducting from it. Most of the time, people driving the "big rigs" feel immune to getting stuck, losing control or from injury in an accident. Often, these are the precursor to an accident happening in the first place. They have no problem going, but often much greater issues stopping or maintaining directional control when going. So don't be the guy running down the people in the compact cars who are maintaining control, when you cannot, or cannot stop.
I have both types of vehicles. I have had as commuting vehicles a Kia Spectra, Chevrolet Cobalt and currently a Kia Rio. I also have a 2wd Dodge Ram 1500 that is generally unable to get out its parking spot in winter conditions and generally is a death trap in any kind of slick conditions (and I spent $700 putting snow tires on it to try to improve this, but to little avail.) I also have a 2008 F250 4x4. Great ground clearance and true 4wd, but trying to get that 7500lb curb weight beast to stop requires a lot of anticipation and testing braking traction long before you have the need to stop. If I have a smaller car in front of me I have to maintain a much longer following distance because the compacts are always able to stop in 1/2 to 1/3 the distance that I can. And running into the back of one of those is not going to be a good thing for the people/kids in the compact and I would be 100% to blame.
There are very few conditions that require me to use the F250 in the winter. Usually, the time that I will get it out is when my wife, who works at a hospital, HAS to get to work and we had 18" of snow and the plow trucks have not even started plowing secondary roads (apparently this is now the norm in Jackson County - wait 2-3days before any secondary roads get cleared). We had 2 such occasions this year with deep snow, no plowing and -19F cold along with -40F wind chill. Very dangerous to be outside and potentially fatal if you do get stuck and are not prepared properly for a walk out. We came very close to getting stuck one time but just scraped out of that situation and needless to say there were very few cars on the road except for an idiot new neighbor who thought that his van could handle 2 foot snow drifts.
In my opinion, it is an extremely wasteful exercise driving a 5000-8000lb vehicle so you can feel safe. My fuel bill is about $34/week with the Kia (which I got used for $3800 btw a 2008 model) whereas it would be close to $80/wk if I drove the Dodge Ram (which cant even get out the driveway) and with current diesel prices it would be close to $125/wk with the F250. That adds up to a LOT of money in a year.
I have only been in 1 accident so far, and that was with the Chevy Cobalt when I slid into the back of a truck when he stopped unexpectedly in the middle of a difficult intersection in a snowstorm. It was a <20mph collision and of course there was not a scratch on the truck since it was all plastic vs the 5000lb tow hitch on the truck(it had no bumper and was raised up high in the air). But I was not hurt and the airbags did not deploy. I have avoided a LOT of accidents by being the one who was in control, even if that sometimes meant I had to steer into the ditch to avoid someone who bounced their spinning car off the concrete median into my lane.
The "real" AWD passenger cars like the Audi's, and Subarus (and meanwhile lots of others) give their drivers the best possibility of staying in control and avoiding situations, but one has to be aware of what the idiots around you are up to. If you are being followed really close by an SUV or truck in bad conditions, sometimes the best course of action is to slow way down and force them to pass you, before they run you over when you have to react to something in front of you. I ALWAYS put snow tires on my vehicles. For $450-$750 its far cheaper insurance than buying and feeding a fuel hog. I need the F250 to tow my #8000 loader backhoe and gooseneck trailer, but a commuting vehicle it is not.
Every one of us who chooses to "go big" is adding to the safety problem and not deducting from it. Most of the time, people driving the "big rigs" feel immune to getting stuck, losing control or from injury in an accident. Often, these are the precursor to an accident happening in the first place. They have no problem going, but often much greater issues stopping or maintaining directional control when going. So don't be the guy running down the people in the compact cars who are maintaining control, when you cannot, or cannot stop.
I have both types of vehicles. I have had as commuting vehicles a Kia Spectra, Chevrolet Cobalt and currently a Kia Rio. I also have a 2wd Dodge Ram 1500 that is generally unable to get out its parking spot in winter conditions and generally is a death trap in any kind of slick conditions (and I spent $700 putting snow tires on it to try to improve this, but to little avail.) I also have a 2008 F250 4x4. Great ground clearance and true 4wd, but trying to get that 7500lb curb weight beast to stop requires a lot of anticipation and testing braking traction long before you have the need to stop. If I have a smaller car in front of me I have to maintain a much longer following distance because the compacts are always able to stop in 1/2 to 1/3 the distance that I can. And running into the back of one of those is not going to be a good thing for the people/kids in the compact and I would be 100% to blame.
There are very few conditions that require me to use the F250 in the winter. Usually, the time that I will get it out is when my wife, who works at a hospital, HAS to get to work and we had 18" of snow and the plow trucks have not even started plowing secondary roads (apparently this is now the norm in Jackson County - wait 2-3days before any secondary roads get cleared). We had 2 such occasions this year with deep snow, no plowing and -19F cold along with -40F wind chill. Very dangerous to be outside and potentially fatal if you do get stuck and are not prepared properly for a walk out. We came very close to getting stuck one time but just scraped out of that situation and needless to say there were very few cars on the road except for an idiot new neighbor who thought that his van could handle 2 foot snow drifts.
In my opinion, it is an extremely wasteful exercise driving a 5000-8000lb vehicle so you can feel safe. My fuel bill is about $34/week with the Kia (which I got used for $3800 btw a 2008 model) whereas it would be close to $80/wk if I drove the Dodge Ram (which cant even get out the driveway) and with current diesel prices it would be close to $125/wk with the F250. That adds up to a LOT of money in a year.
I have only been in 1 accident so far, and that was with the Chevy Cobalt when I slid into the back of a truck when he stopped unexpectedly in the middle of a difficult intersection in a snowstorm. It was a <20mph collision and of course there was not a scratch on the truck since it was all plastic vs the 5000lb tow hitch on the truck(it had no bumper and was raised up high in the air). But I was not hurt and the airbags did not deploy. I have avoided a LOT of accidents by being the one who was in control, even if that sometimes meant I had to steer into the ditch to avoid someone who bounced their spinning car off the concrete median into my lane.
The "real" AWD passenger cars like the Audi's, and Subarus (and meanwhile lots of others) give their drivers the best possibility of staying in control and avoiding situations, but one has to be aware of what the idiots around you are up to. If you are being followed really close by an SUV or truck in bad conditions, sometimes the best course of action is to slow way down and force them to pass you, before they run you over when you have to react to something in front of you. I ALWAYS put snow tires on my vehicles. For $450-$750 its far cheaper insurance than buying and feeding a fuel hog. I need the F250 to tow my #8000 loader backhoe and gooseneck trailer, but a commuting vehicle it is not.
Looking4new
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So that is an easy choice for you. Daughter gets Blazer, junior gets Town car.
WayneB
Elite Member
Presently I drive a Volvo V-50 and it is a nice small ride and the mpg on the highway is a bit better than 30MPG. I was looking to trade it in for the new model Volvo offers, V-60 but when I looked at it the price of anything they had on the lot was close to $40,000.00 which I felt was outside of what I desire to pay. Also looking at the BMW X-1 which is a nice ride with lot of features and pretty well loaded you can drive away for around $35,000.00. This also come with a 4 year 50,000 mile bumper to bumper coverage. So we are trying to figure out just what to do come May.
westcliffe01
Veteran Member
Or you can do a 2007-2008 Audi A4 with the 1.8 or 2.0 turbo engine and <50k miles for about $13k.
JDgreen227
Super Member
westcliffe01 presented several excellent points, the most important being (in my biased opinion) the comparison between a full framed 7000 pound truck and a 2500 pound unibody car. I also concur it's wasteful to use a large vehicle just so you feel safe. My 3-ton GMC logs mileage between 1500-1800 a year, and during those miles it's either it's pulling a trailer, hauling cargo, carrying six to eight passengers, or needed for deep snow and poor traction conditions. At the mileage it delivers only a rich idiot would use it for everyday transportation. I complained in another thread about "Moronic Drivers" and I think in inclement weather many of those people who drive a 4X4 truck or AWD car feel just because they have superior traction to get moving from a stop, their vehicles are magically immune to the laws of friction, gravity, and inertia when it comes to cornering and braking.
buickanddeere
Super Member
FIL is a retired firechief. Sister is a paramedic and ER RN. Both say that in a multi vehicle crash. The larger vehicle "wins".
A raised drawbar in a trailer hitch can tend to soften a hit from the rear by forcing the drawbar vehicle up and the impacting vehicle down.
Even with a trucks terrible mileage. If it's just an extra thousand a year in fuel, who cares.
A raised drawbar in a trailer hitch can tend to soften a hit from the rear by forcing the drawbar vehicle up and the impacting vehicle down.
Even with a trucks terrible mileage. If it's just an extra thousand a year in fuel, who cares.
