Caroni flail with the Hydraulic shift kit for a Kubota L4600?

[Sid Post]

Hydraulic Shift Kit for Caroni Flail Mower | Agri Supply 68318
Flail Mower, Rear Flail Mower TM19 | Caroni 3837

Today I own a Kubota L4600 which is ~45Hp to the PTO. I am looking to get a good quality flail that isn't excessively expensive and see a lot of favorable comments about the Caroni options. I do plan on upgrading my tractor at some point to a ~60-70Hp Pto tractor FWIW.

First, I want to make sure the 73" flail won't unbalance my tractor cutting ditches and creek banks with and without the hydraulic shift kit engaged. The hydraulic shift will give me an additional 14" of reach past the tires won't it? Or is that something I can do manually and save ~$1k?

TIA,
Sid

p.s. I'm not really interested in Chinese options but, domestic USA or EU options would be considered just not the super expensive ones!

 

[Sid Post]

p.s.

How would a Woodmax compare to the Caroni? It looks like it has more shift so, it might work out better on pond banks and around ditches.
FM-78H Flail Mower | Flail Mower Attachment | Tractor Mower | PTO Mower | -WoodMaxx™

 

[leonz]

Hello Mr. Post,


You have to size the flail mower purchase based on the mowers working dimensions at full extension AND making sure you have ballast in the left rear wheel and front weights.

The more money you spend now on a good Italian flail mower or boom mounted flail mower the less worry and bother you will have 10 years down the road.

The only other option you have is a new three point sickle bar mower to allow you have flexibility and less expense as it has much less weight.

 

[Sid Post]

No sickle bar mowers for me. I spent my youth pulling bars, replacing teeth, etc. to go down that road again. One beer bottle or fresh branch is way too hard on a sickle bar for me to think it would be a good choice. Plus, some of the areas are pretty rough as well so, a rock or two turned up by a rut or gopher would be bad as well.

Regarding ballast, I have wheel weights and 'beet juice' in my tires for ballasting. What I don't want to do is end up really unbalanced like a heavy Brushbull 7' rotary mower does without ballast in my loader bucket.

At ~1K pounds relatively close to the 3-point arms, the front to rear 'tee-totter' effect should be greatly reduced. With the mower down, the center of gravity should be low but, how tipsy? Wheel weight adjustments can be made to minimize this.

Hopefully, someone with a similar tractor can comment and make sure I'm headed in the right direction so I don't end up with too little or too much mower like I have with rotaries (bush hogs). Plus, that 7' rotary with the ballasted loader was exceptionally long with a huge turning radius. Live and learn, a mid-weight 6' rotary doesn't take as big a bite but, the reduced length and turning radius does cover more ground faster.

 

[RoyJackson]

I have a 2005 Deere 4520...about the same size and weight of your Kubota.
I do have a Caroni flail, but no hydraulic side shift. The 3PH frame can mount in two locations..one centered directly behind the tractor, the other shifted to the right side. Mine is rigged to the right side. Even when transporting, I've never noticed any instability.
This isn't a ditch bank mower, so there's no tilt to mow a bank...so, even if running close to a pond or bank, the majority of the weight will be behind you...not to the offset. And, if the mower is on the ground, the offset will be as horizontal as the rest of the mower.

 

[Sid Post]

Thanks! I probably should have mentioned that the area on the pond is pretty flat with a slight grade, a very gentle slope, where I need to knock down the weeds and Sugar Gum sprouts. The ditch between my pipe fence and the road is flat as well with a soil erosion ditch about 2 feet wide that is 18"~36" deep. I want to stay farther away from the edge as I'm afraid at some point it may break off and roll my tractor. It is way too much to weed whack even with my good Stihl 4-stroke trimer and its hard blade. With the gophers and run-off erosion, I often find the length of my rotary cutter gouges and digs in pretty hard. The shorter overall length of the flail should get rid of some of the 'teeter-totter' effect when I run into those too.

 

[RoyJackson]

Thanks! I probably should have mentioned that the area on the pond is pretty flat with a slight grade, a very gentle slope, where I need to knock down the weeds and Sugar Gum sprouts. The ditch between my pipe fence and the road is flat as well with a soil erosion ditch about 2 feet wide that is 18"~36" deep. I want to stay farther away from the edge as I'm afraid at some point it may break off and roll my tractor. It is way too much to weed whack even with my good Stihl 4-stroke trimer and its hard blade. With the gophers and run-off erosion, I often find the length of my rotary cutter gouges and digs in pretty hard. The shorter overall length of the flail should get rid of some of the 'teeter-totter' effect when I run into those too.

Also, the full width of the roller, rather then a tailwheel, should help in maintaining stability.
However, you may want to consider a ditch bank mower (aka Verge mower) instead. Although most aren't as wide as the Caroni, they can (hydraulically) offset quite a bit further then a flail. Verge mowers are pretty popular in Europe. Take a look on YouTube for videos of verge mowers.

 

[Sid Post]

Also, the full width of the roller, rather then a tailwheel, should help in maintaining stability.
However, you may want to consider a ditch bank mower (aka Verge mower) instead. Although most aren't as wide as the Caroni, they can (hydraulically) offset quite a bit further then a flail. Verge mowers are pretty popular in Europe. Take a look on YouTube for videos of verge mowers.

Thank you! After some googling some last night, I ran into this one which has my interest:
Ibex TS52 Hydraulic Offset Flail Mower • Tractor Tools Direct

 

[BukitCase]

Sid, I would be careful dealing with that company; I checked out their site, they appear to be offering "$1000 off" on their "italian" 73" flail, which is STILL about $500 MORE than I paid for my TM1900 (73") - only difference I see is my Caroni doesn't have a "kick stand".
Also, my TM1900 at MINIMUM offset lacks about 8" of covering the left rear tire track - I didn't buy the hydraulic offset, because as near as I could tell, the hydraulic didn't offset any more than installing the tower in the second position; only quicker. If my situation required shifting the offset back and forth, I would've probably paid the extra grand -

Roy's suggestion on the verge mower is a good one and that will be more expensive, but for your application I don't think you'd be happy otherwise -

Also, as light as your tractor is I would probably ALSO figure out a way for a counterweight on the uphill side... Steve

 

[Sid Post]

Regarding their standard flails, they include the hydraulic offset which is an additional $1056 plus effort to install on the Caroni. They also have the recutter bar which I believe the Caroni TM1900 lacks, please correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

The one I linked to is sized and weighted for something like a Kubota B-series. And yes with any of them in addition to beet juice in the tires, I would most likely add weights to offset the weight of the shifted flail. My L4600 would handle it easily but, I also have wheel weights for it so, I could 'tune' the balance and CG to some extent though, for that tractor I'd most likely opt for the nearly twice as heavy next size up which is going to be more stout with its heavier frame and generally heavier construction.

I spoke with them today and the one I linked is used by some people with JD 1025R's so, while not ideal it is possible with some reservations. A Kubota B2601/B2250 would be a better match and I'm thinking a B2601 is in my future as it would be a whole lot easier to use in corrals, around barns, etc. over my much larger L4600.