Carpenter advice.....historic rafter "tails"

[Budweiser John]

Well, the big papa bear here is the asbestos issue. Asbestos abatement no matter how small doesn’t come cheap. In this case I would suspect the project would include the whole roof. Another matter not yet brought to the forefront is lead paint. Most homes built before 1978 will have a coating or two of lead paint especially on exterior surfaces. Lead paint is the other bear in the renovation woods that requires special attention by qualified personnel.
The goofy thing about the lead paint rules is that a home owner can sand, scrape and chemically remove lead paint until the cows come home but the minute a dollar changes hands in exchange work involving the removal of lead painted trim, siding, ETC the contractor must be certified.
Pretty tough to skate under the radar of the construction cops especially in a designated historic area where there are a lot of home owner deputies.
B. John

 

[California]

There are hobbyists who spend a lifetime and every last cent of available income keeping a house like that repaired in good condition.

If that's not you, sell it and buy one similar that does pass a rigorous inspection. Find a house that already cost the seller his lifetime of work, don't DIY.


I have a similar, not identical situation. The little 1910 farmhouse at the ranch is so simple that it was built on mudsills, redwood 2x12's right on the ground for its foundation. Adding a room for an indoor bathroom (before our time) was clearly the first remodel, and wiring it for electricity. (photo). As a kid I helped additional remodels, first one in that series was pier blocks under it (about 1959, photo 2007) then expanding the narrow one bedroom to where a bed could now be turned in either direction with the foot of the bed pointed toward the outside wall.

Lots of other work of similar complexity - all done with as much salvage material as Dad could hoard over several years in preparation for the next project. I'm still working off the stockpile of used full-dimension 2x4's (Photo 2010). I learned so much carpentry perpetually re-working things to make them right that years later as an adult I was 'invited' to join the Carpenter's union and start paying dues, after the union boss discovered me working non-union jobs so many times that we recognized one another on sight.

I was always told growing up that this ranch house is nothing more than a simple hobby summer home, don't try to bring it up to family-home quality but when the next (California) earthquake knocks it down just bring in a double wide. Dad in his elder years said just bulldoze it, it's a fool's errand to try to make it last through your generation. Now I'm saying the same thing to my kids. By the time I took it over, I discovered Dad had chosen to ignore at least a half dozen leaks in the rusty plumbing, all of it so rotten that unscrewing anything usually meant working back until reaching a prior repair with somewhat newer materials - that I had probably put in years ago as used materials back then.



I could go on endlessly but I'll summarize: BTDT, Don't Do It!!!


(But the place sure is cute. Photo - the (repurposed) water tower, during replacement of its foundation.)

 

[Redlands Okie]

Thanks for all the help guys. I sent a inquiry to the FIBERGLASS Pergola company. I don't think that my daughter got a "house inspection" when she bought it....you know how kids are. When I saw it it was after she was the proud owner. Oh well....
The roof is ASBESTOS shingle so I really don't want to remove it. I checked with the code inspectors office and asbestos CAN be covered....but I need to deal with those decks and rafter ends. Maybe 12" of semi matching FIBERGLASS ends is a good idea? Don't know what to do about the decking....dig out and bondo type filler?

Boeing go back and read some of the advice again. You have gotten some good advice from people that make a living fixing the mistakes of others. This roofing problem your dealing with is a very good example. If your not careful you will be creating another such job. If you replace the last 18 inch to 24 inch of the rafter tails your going to have to redo it again since its likely to sag down. Ice is common on the edges of roofs in many areas and thats a lot of weight. That is unless the wind gets it and just removes it. Your going to need to remove at least 3 feet of decking and better yet 4 feet from the edge to allow you to properly replace the rafter tails. Then replace the decking and install new shingles.
You can do less but its very likely going to come back and bite you in the wallet and backside. You NEVER save money having to do it twice. Not trying to make you mad
What is your daughter going to do if they sale it? What are the odds of the next owners or mortgage people not getting a inspector ? If / when it gets damaged in a storm what is the chance of the insurance inspector seeing its improper workmanship?
How strict is your historical area if you have one? Sucks to get a legal letter telling you to start over and believe me it does happen. So make sure your not going to have problems on that.

 

[spitter]

How many tails are as bad as pic three? Lots of them don't look that bad .Ive seen much worse. Done a lot of histerical :laughing: repairs just finished a balloon framed house where 50 % of the plates where removed with a vacuum . Ive worked on projects that were funded by govt. that doesn't allow you to remove wood just because of surface rot . What they do is inject rot with a stabilizer that fills the pores off wood then use a epoxy type wood filler [ bondo type] and build it up to make it like new. Long and arduous process if u ask me . But the funding agency paid for it .Cheapest fastest way is eddy's.:drink:

 

[Boeing]

JTH, I know that you're right. I'm sad that this is the situation for a young woman trying to "get ahead". One of life's lessons, I guess.
Thanks to all for the input and good advice. :duh:

 

[MossRoad]

While there are some very restrictive rules regarding asbestos removal, there are different rules for contractors VS homeowners, commercial properties VS residential single-owner properties, and most importantly, demolition VS renovation. So don't get suckered into professional asbestos abatement contractors if you don't need them. Here's a good place to start for GA..... (I think).

Asbestos Notification Requirements | Environmental Protection Division

If anything, its a good read.

 

[rScotty]

The basic repair doesn't look difficult. My advice is to have someone look at the foundation. If the foundation is good and dry then the rest of the house is probably worth the effort to bring it up to snuff.

Given a good foundation, this looks doable. In fact, this is a straight forward project that seems like a fun one. If you can find an building inspector willing to work with you there's no reason why an amateur can't turn out a fine job doing this type of work. Learning and earning as you go. Carpentry is easy and enjoyable.

Yes, those rafters are structural; very much so. Here's one way to go about doing it. There are other ways too.
What I'd plan to do is to pre-make & pre-paint FULL LENGTH rafters to the same dimensions as the existing. Do just one first, and see how it goes. It wouldn't hurt to do it somewhere not too visible.... . Next you cut a hole next to the existing rafter. Cut it right through that interior wall sub-fascia where the rafter pokes through from inside to exterior then slide the newly prepared one up and in right alongside the old. Be sure to use full length so that you can lay & attach the upper end of the new rafter on the same structural support as the old rafter.

Fasten everything down, remove all the exterior portions of the old rafter and any other parts that seem rotten. Cover the hole where the old rafter poked through... and now you have a strong rafter. It is one rafter thickness offset from the old rafter, but that shouldn't make a difference. If it does, you may want to sandwich the old rafter.

Now that you have a strong rafter, the next task is to replace the roofing boards and shingles that sit on the rafter. Certainly the drip edge board and any exteior fascia is rotted; replace as many boards as needed.

Hint: you cannot do too much towards improving the water barrier. After all, if the original roof had decent water barrier construction then none of this repair would be necessary. It was sloppy work, and sloppy upkeep. Make yours better. Dry wood lasts a long, long time. On painting, I like to pre-paint with a several coats of quality exterior oil-based enamal - it is an expensive paint, but makes a good water barrier. Use a white, and then you can adjust color later by over-painting with an easier to use and less expensive box store water base or acrylic paint.

Keep a project notebook and take lots of honest notes and photos. This won't be the only chore in such an old house. But bringing it up to standard is an easy way to build value. The notebook is how you show the next buyer that they are getting what they are paying for.

Kudos to Downsizingnow48 for the link: https://www.columbusga.org/planning/pdfs/Design-Guidelines.pdf
Interesting document and makes good reading for those of us who like such things.
good luck, rScotty

 

[EddieWalker]

The shingles and decking has to be removed to do it correctly. How far up he goes is where it gets interesting. I would try to go four feet so I could use a full sheet of plywood, but if I had to use 1x lumber to meet some historical requirement, I might consider going up even farther so I could use a full sheet of plywood to the edge of the building, and then 1x lumber out past the wall.

I do not believe there is any way to sister on a new rafter tail unless you have access to the entire roofing system. Even then, it's going to require cutting off the bad lumber, and attaching the new lumber in it's place. Then sistering on support lumber on both sides of the replacement rafter tails. I've seen rafters that where cracked and other guys did the repair with just one board on one side to fix it. I double up all repairs, if it failed originally, it needs to be better and stronger after the repair then brand new.

This really would be a great time to pull off all the shingles, go over all the decking, install new vents, new flashing, and then new shingles.

This could be done right and never touched again for 50 years.

 

[wlamarparmer]

To OP,
If want/need, professional input. contact John R Cargill Design/Remodel, does lots historic stuff here.
Not cheap, but first guy I call. Acted as contractor one house for me and remodels on 3. Lifetime friend
my wife.
Wilson L Parmer

 

[Barnbuilder]

18 inches is a lot of weight to hold up. Did he have any other bracing or support?

Been along time. I don't think it had any additional supports. Had multiple biscuits. House was very old with a low pitch metal roof. Several years later I think it had the same problem again. Almost like the moisture stays under that overhang and the wood just absorbs it.