Case 431 clutch issues

[Frank Surber]

I just got a Case 431 that apparently has clutch issues, which is probably why it was so cheap the guy just wanted to get rid of it.
As I understand it he had new clutches installed but something is not right.
I have no idea what the something is not right may mean and since it has some other bits disassembled on it right now I will have to get it running before I can determine what the something is not right may mean. But I suspect it may have something in the way they were installed or parts left out or just a simple matter of not knowing how to adjust them.
I haven't worked on a cast tractor in 50 years so what ever I'll be looking for I may be shooting blind.
What would be some things to look for before I separate in half, adjustment procedures free-play slack ETC?

 

[DJ54]

If everything was put in new, a several things come to mind. Clutch disc put in backwards. If they did not replace the pilot bushing, it could be letting the main shaft drop a bit, and not let the clutch fully disengage.

The third item I came across on a 310B I put a new oem clutch release bearing in. The cast piece of the bearing, that slides on a bushing had some roughness on the inside of the casting, and would bind on the tubular sleeve, and not let it slide freely. As crude as it may seem, I took a new chain saw file, and filed those ridges off on the interior of that cast piece, until it would slide freely on that tube bushing. If that was the case with this one, and they just tapped it on, it could be binding, and not letting the clutch release.

In reality, it could be many things. There are woodruff keys in the cross shaft, where the release fork attaches. Not likely, but possible they could be sheared.

With out knowing the symptoms, it's hard to diagnose. As far as pedal adjustment, most are measured from the fully released position, and most different brands I've adjusted, free travel is approx. 1". If it feels like the release bearning is making contact with the pressure plate fingers, with approx. 1" of free travel, you ought to be in the ball park. If this is the case, it's more than likely an issue inside the bell housing.

I'm attaching an exploded view of a Case 400 series tractor clutch release mechanism. What you have, should be at least similar. It shows the T-out bearing, and the tubular sleeve bushing it rides on I was talking about. Schematic, Manuals, Specifications and Diagrams for Clutch throwout parts, for foot operated clutch | Case IH | MyCNHi US Store

If it had sat for a while, after installing all of this, with an inspection port snap in cover missing, and the cluth pedal felt spongy, I'd guess some small varmints had bult a nest in the bell housing. Had this issue with the 310B,where Chipmunks built a nest, using string, and anything else they could get through that hole, plus storing acorns in there for winter. All of that got wrapped up in the pressure plate fingers, and would not let it fully release. I pulled a 10 qt.bucket of "stuff" out of there. After doing that, and the filing on the new release bearing casting, everything worked as it should.

 

[Frank Surber]

Thanks DJ54, Not sure when I will get around to checking it out The guys who supposedly replaced the clutch were the suns of the guy who had approached me 6 years ago to replace it but he never brought it to me. He passed away sometime this year and they just wanted to get shut of a lot of his stuff so me and a friend made a ridiculous offer which wound up being 3 tractor trailer loads of stuff fortunately not all of it came to me but I may be getting the Jubilee and quite a bit more attachments as well over the next few months

 

[DJ54]

If you bought it right, it'd be worth looking into. If you have no use for it, and not a lot of money invested, you could alwys flip it. It may be something pretty simple. You may have some time invested, and hopefully little in parts.

Everyone's time is worth something, but I have a tendency not to put an hourly rate on something like this, if I intend to keep it, or flip it. I have a decent little shop, heated cheaply in the winter time, and gives me a place to get out of the house. If I flip it, I consider it a bit of cash to put towards something I want/need, or, a slush fund to buy more to use/flip. I just enjoy working on things. To each his own. There are lots of things I've worked on and fixed, that when someone asks a question such as you did, I have done, and repaired, on a particular model, and come up with answers to their problem.

 

[Frank Surber]

OH, I'm in it right, it will cost me more to buy a pair of proper front tires and have them foam filled that we paid for the tractor itself.
like I said it has been close to 50 years since a separated a case tractor but all older tractors split pretty much the same way. Once running it will be a wecomed upgrade from my 8n since it has the triple range transmission auxilary hydraulics and power steering. the power steering doesnt mean much to me but the 12 forward and much lower reverse speeds do. but most of all being diesel. Having aux hyd. means I will be able to pull my 6 ft flail mower with it as well

 

[DJ54]

Sweet..!!

 

[Frank Surber]

This is unbelievable today was the first time I really took a look at the tractor
Any wonder why the guy said somethings not right?

I've seen some crazy things in my time I've witnessed guys doing some pretty dumb things
Most of the shade tree guys I've known would have known better than to do this.

 

[DJ54]

Ain't that a dandy..!! Gut instinct is telling me maybe whoever did the work, probably didn't align the splines for the hydraulic pump drive tube before taking it on in, to align with the clutch disc splines. If it's like similar model Case tractors, the hydraulic pump is located in the torque tube, and is driven on part of the pressure plate that does not disengage, providing live hydraulics, back through a hollow tube, much like an independant PTO. If that is the case, and the tube is damaged, you can probably find one in a salvage yard.

I'd have to guess the part of the p/p that drives that tube is sprung inward, probably bottomed out on maybe the clutch disc..?? Hopefully, it didn't damage the hyd. pump. Pretty sure that far in, the main shaft should be at least partially in the pilot bushing.

Most definitely want to see some pics, once you get it split..!!

 

[Frank Surber]

It reminds me of a time when a guy towed his car to me after he had tried to install the automatic transmission I had rebuilt for him. He was mad as **** saying I had screwed up in rebuilding the transmission because the torque converter wouldn't rotate to allow him to install the bolts attaching the flex plate to the torque converter
I said really, did you remove the shipping strap that was there to hold the torque converter in place while in transit?
The dumb look on his face told it all.
I put his vehicle up on a lift placed a stand under the engine and put a transmission jack under the transmission unbolted the tranny from the engine and removed the 2 bolts he had managed to get in the flex plate unbolted the rear mount, slid the transmission back about 3 inches removed the strap slid it back in place installed all of the bolts in the bell housing and the flex plate lowered the lift filled the transmission with fluid made sure everything else was properly connected started the vehicle and backed it out of my shop. Out in the parking lot I sort of smoked his tires a bit then pulled it back into the shop and said it seems fine to me.
He asked me how much he owed me I told him I should charge you double of what I told you that I would have pulled and replaced your transmission for you in the first place, but you said you could do it yourself and save the R&R cost. Then you barge in here all heated up in a lather yelling at me in front of other customers saying I had done a shoddy job of rebuilding your transmission when to find out it was your own ineptitude at fault. You've wasted an hours worth of my time is all so if you just get in your vehicle and drive off we will call it even as long as you have learned something.
He said no I realize now that it was my stupidity trying to save a few bucks that I didn't pay attention to the bright red metal strip with the words remove before install stenciled on it. he handed me some folded bills apologized and left.
I've never actually been in the business of rebuilding automatic transmissions exclusively as I had a fabrication and machine and hydraulic repair shop but I did occasionally take in a few transmissions when work was slow or I could be talked into it. when I did rebuild one though I always secured the torque converter in place with a strip of metal because I didn't want it to fall out and possibly damage the seal the pump of the torque converter in transit.
I don't know just when I will have the time to separate the old tractor and can only hope there is not a lot of damage that will require parts replacement

 

[Frank Surber]

I forgot all about adding an update to the clutch problem on the Case tractor.
When I separated it everything was splined up properly but whoever had installed the clutch had put the disk in backwards and had screwed with the pressure plate adjustment bolts.
I flipped the disk then adjusted the 3 bolts to have the correct fork release height. Put the tractor back together and everything worked as it should. The only thing I was out was a little time