Case 580c

fredbear241 · Apr 3, 2003

I gather the 580B is getting a little old now.
I just found a 580c at a lowish price, but I'm not sure if I should keep saving for a 580S or later.
Where the 580c's a bad bunch? or near indestructable?
How is the digging ability compared to later models?
How would it compare to a small (eg 4T-6T) tracked excavator? I have a driveway to put in (which will need a fair amount of digging to get down to the road level.), amongst other things like storm drains, and a backhoe seems to be the best compromise between an excavator on track, and a small dozer / or cat tracked bucket. I don't mind spending time doing the job slowly, but I don't want to be drilling 6" holes in concrete with a hand drill either, if you follow my meaning.

Thoughts apreciated.

Will_C · Apr 3, 2003

580C- built between 1976 and 1980, same basic motor as the 580B, roughly the same tractor with some upgrades, digging depth 14' 918' with extendahoe), a good Case backhoe.

Anonymous Poster · Apr 3, 2003

...What Will said....

A 580C is a very good machine. I personally like them a lot, along with the 580D which is even better. It's a perfect machine for what you want to do. But, an excavator would get things done much faster, and if you have a lot of 'clearing' as far as brush and vegetation goes, it's easier. But, with a backhoe it can be done. A backhoe you have that machine and that machine only for two tasks, digging and hauling with the loader. If you take an excavator, you have to have something to help haul materials like dirt etc. If you have to do clearing and need a thumb, here's what my boss put on his extendahoe, 580B. See attachment. Anyway.....It's a little unclear to me though what exactly you need to do, how much room you have etc. Really, if you have a TON of digging, get an excavator, then when you're ready to haul, rent a wheel loader or whatever.

Blake
WA

Anonymous Poster · Apr 3, 2003

SORRY ABOUT THAT, HERE'S THE LINK TO THE PIC. I POSTED MONTHS AGO, I SPENT 15 MIN. TRYING TO GET IT ATTACHED AND IT SAID IT WAS TOO BIG. I HATE COMPUTERS.

LINK: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/47-225523-Scan002%2CJanuary12%2C2003.jpg

Blake
WA

fredbear241 · Apr 3, 2003

Thanks for input. Lots of jobs to do (not much "clearing", mostly reprofiling, contouring, trench digging etc), but the main one is the driveway. Rough calc so far I've estimated I need to dig & move around 1000m3 (yep 1 x thousand m3) which is 1300cuyd (I think!) or roughly 2200 metric Tonnes - ie a bucket load - several actually

. I thought about a contractor for the drive, but they estimate it will be around A$50-70,000 to do (no fixed price is available - unless I'm willing to roughly double the price!). They indicated using a 20T - 30T excavator and approx 15-20 days. (excavator = $120/hr + truck to haul @ $50/hr + dozer to spread material @ $100/hr +rock breaker @ $50/hr if required) I'm thinking I could buy something, chip away at it (having fun of course) for 6-12mths, dig my stormwater, flatten out a round yard, then sell the "toy". Even if I only get around 1/2 of what I paid, I'd still be in front. FWIW the 580c is around $10K (ie real cheap). 580SLE's go for around A$50K-$70K. A JD450 is around the $35-45K mark A CAT 12T excavator is ~$80K (Our money is approx 1/2 US$ ie 1 US$ ~= 2A$)

Again thx, appreciate your input.

BillG_in_TX · Apr 4, 2003

No need to YELL. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Hoeman00 · Apr 5, 2003

1300 cu yds =1300 -1800 tons
Loose dirt = 2000#/cu yd
Rammed dirt= 2700#/cu yd
Gravel = 2700#/cu yd
W/ my backhoe I've loaded trucks and usually keep 2 semi-dumps busy hauling.
I've dug loose w/ hoe and used the loader to load and also just used the hoe to load(3/4 yd bucket on hoe).
I've loaded up to 50 ton an hour before so I think that a larger hoe would take over 3 days to do the job.
Depending on how far u are hauling u could use 3 or 4 trucks to keep hoe busy.
Another way to look at time to dig out is say u are using 1 yd bucket on larger hoe and it takes 1 minute to load, dump and return to dig this equals 1300 minutes or 21+ hours.
Say it takes 2 minutes to load and dump bucket then 2600 minutes or 42+ hours.
So their time is way off at 3 to 4 weeks.
If u want a good backhoe try to find a 710B 0r C Deere (look at specs compared to 580) and the loader will dump over side of semi-trucks plus 3/4 yd hoe bucket.
IMHO heaviest and best built hoe for the money.
I call my 710 an excavator on wheels.

dummy · Apr 7, 2003

Regardless of the brand issue, I agree with Hoeman's calculations. Sounds like the price you got was from someone who wasn't really interested in taking the job. Assuming the funds are available, I would definitely buy my own machine and do it myself. I too have more time than money and I get alot of satisfaction knowing that the end result is "just what I wanted".
I've been generally happy with my 580E and it's capabilities, but I know I made a mistake in not waiting to find a comparable 4WD version. Lot of red clay in my area, so everytime it rains, let the slipping and sliding begin. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Doesn't necessarily stop work, but it does tend to slow down production.
I too bought mine to do a couple of jobs and then I'll sell it! I keep turning up projects that a backhoe sure is handy for and it's already paid for and .......now I'm looking for a good used 4WD model to trade into. Just too handy not to keep it around.
And oh yeah, a 4n1 bucket w/quick attach plates, fork lift att. and quick attach hoe buckets, side shift hoe, cab w/heat and air. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

fredbear241 · Apr 8, 2003

I called about 15 companies, but could only get 4 to come out & take a look. (the rest said they would but never showed, even after return calls!). Of the 4 that did, 3 had similar prices. The guy that only had a 580, at least turned up, but said it was to big for him to take on & I should look at a getting someone with a bigger machine. I accept this, since he is doing it for a living. OTOH, I'm only doing it 'part tme'.
Re the calcs, 1300m3 ~= 2600metric Tonnes. Typical dump truck, hold 12T so that is around 210 truck loads....If each excavator bucket full is 400kg then that means 30 buckets / truck @ 2mins each = 60mins or 1hrs / truckload x 210 truckloads = 210hrs / 10hr day = 21 days. To fill the truck with a loader, rather than the hoe, might not be possible. I'm talking about a driveway width to work within.

If my calc is way off, please let me know! (or if you can suggest how to fill the truck with a loader on an 5-6m wide driveway !)
The turning / loading issue is one concern I have re buying an excavator vs a backhoe (even though I think the backhoe will be more suited to other jobs around the property.)
Thx for your input / insights

clifst2310 · Apr 8, 2003

I agree. I have just bought my first backhoe /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, a IH 3414. I got it for 3500.00. I am learning as I operate it. I have changed how I am building, because I am the operator, so I now set the digging schedule /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. I also have a pond project planned. BTW I was able to use the front loader to lift my new Harley out of my pickup. Never know when a backhoe could come in handy /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif.

Hoeman00 · Apr 8, 2003

Fredbear 241:
You're calculations are off, in loose dirt a cu m is close to a m ton.
Liquid concrete is about the only thing that is 2m ton/1 cu m.
So this would get u 1300 m ton of dirt.
My backhoe has a 3/4 cu yd bucket so say 700kg/load.
One a larger trackhoe a 1 cu m bucket or larger is common.
U must have small dump trucks at only 12m ton each.
We commonly load (legal) 20 m ton and if hauling 'on site' go up to 30- 35 m ton.
I dug a basement Sunday morning did over 60 cu yd/hour and wasn't working hard and left the floor level with-in 1".
If I could get my hoe there cheap I'd do it for 25,000-35,000USD, i could even take 2 weeks and still make lots of money. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I still think they are RIPPING u off. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Anonymous Poster · Apr 8, 2003

Well, I can't tell you too much in the way in calculations becuase I'm only 18 and have never been exposed to those equations regarding that stuff "YET" /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. If you think that a backhoe would be good for you around the property, if you have other projects except the one you're talking about, get one. My boss has a backhoe and has had it for, oh, over 20 years or so. He's the old fashioned type and won't use a trackhoe, mini or large or dozer for anything. It's either, it can be done with the backhoe or not at all. I think that if he can get by, then you can as well. I guess you'll just have to go the slow way and load the trucks with the hoe, get a 4 foot bucket so you have a nice wide bucket for more materials. I don't know. If companies won't come out then don't bother, they either aren't that serious, or are flakey and you don't want them scewing up your property. What's on either side of your road that limits you're size to only 5-6 meters of room?

Blake
WA

fredbear241 · Apr 9, 2003

Post above mentioned "dirt", unfortunaely we don't have a lot of that :-( We have prob 3-4" dirt over shale & other. & i'm sure there are a few large 'nuggets' in ther that will need to be picked out (one reason an excavator might be better?)

I've looked at "breakout" numbers to compare equipment, but I guess the real question is how well does a backhoe dig.
eg for those that dig sewer or similar deep trenches (a few meters), have you ever not been able to dig it with a backhoe? What sort of material / rock type stopped you? What did you use instead?

The Driveway will be approx 5m wide + batters, and is to be cut across & into a slope / hillside. ummm another way, the house is on top of a hill. the land slopes down to the road and beyond. at the road edge there is a 5m vert wall where the road was cut accross the hill. So I need to grade down from the house + slope down the extra 5m to create approx 15% driveway slope from road to house. So at the bottom end, it will be like digging a deeeeep swimming pool ~5m deep & 5m wide, except it will have batters.

dummy · Apr 10, 2003

( ~5m deep & 5m wide, except it will have batters )
Are you referring to a retaining wall of some sort?
( have you ever not been able to dig it with a backhoe? What sort of material / rock type stopped you? What did you use instead?
 ) Jackhammer ( To fill the truck with a loader, rather than the hoe, might not be possible. I'm talking about a driveway width to work within. 
) You might have to back out of the hole to turn around and load a truck.
It sounds as if you might be expecting to do the driveway yourself in the same amount of time as the excavation crew? I thought you were talking about doing it by yourself, load a truck-dump the load and repeat a whole bunch of times! It will take a lot of nights, weekends and holidays. Plus, if your not an operator it will take time to learn how to do those things efficiently.

dummy · Apr 10, 2003

BTW I was able to use the front loader to lift my new Harley out of my pickup. Never know when a backhoe could come in handy .
 Congratulations on both, but maybe condolences are in order also. Best digging weather is also the best riding weather /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Decisions, decisions....They are both seat time though /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

fredbear241 · Apr 10, 2003

( Are you referring to a retaining wall of some sort?
) Nope, just a 'hole', (with battered sides) to get down to the road (which has been cut into the side of the hill, and has a vertical wall on the uphill side)
( Jackhammer ) ummmm assume you don't do that often /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ie the backhoe digs thru just about anything?
( in the same amount of time as the excavation crew? ) Not at all, infact the more seat the better

but I I don't cut my lawn with scissors, and I'm not looking to do the same with the driveway.

dummy · Apr 11, 2003

the backhoe digs thru just about anything? No, I wouldn't want to say that. My experience is with things I couldn't move with backhoe or excavator has been to break it up into smaller pieces. I don't cut my lawn with scissors, and I'm not looking to do the same with the driveway. Nor do I /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif yet finding the comfort zone between "how much does it cost" and "how long will it take" can be a difficult dilemma.

Anonymous Poster · Apr 12, 2003

"Dummy" is right about breaking things up. I wouldn't put too much stress on a backhoe if you can't 'dig' through it. The teeth on the bucket will break if you're too rough, and you don't want to slam the bucket into the materials because that's a good way to ruin the teeth and the hoe itself. So, if you have trouble even at high throttle, than you'll have to maybe use a hammer to break it up or something.

Blake
WA

clifst2310 · Apr 13, 2003

I've ridden 23 years+ /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, so I spend a bit more time "riding" the backhoe. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I've already moved about 75 yards of dirt to build berms around the pad of my soon to be built workshop/garage. This has taken me a while, but I'm learning as i go./forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Also used the front bucket to move firewood last winter and my back appreciated it.