Caught Being Not so Safe Today- Warning

[slowzuki]

Most sizeable tractors in the last hmm, 40 years or so permit/require shifting while traveling on the road like a car. I did used to drive a mid 60's Ford 5000 with no foot throttle and a crash box but you still had to shift it or you wouldn't make it up hills. Just had to double clutch and speed match with the throttle.

I just don't know how you could get anything done on a farm that requires road travel without shifting... maybe in the flatlands? I grew up with mostly late 70's machines and they had synchro boxs like a car. My friends had 80's stuff, much of it with clutchless powershift transmissions, the small stuff had synchro boxes.

Must have really burned up clutches in those oldies!

Slowzuki, one thing I don't get is why you want a hand on the shifter when roading. Again, please forgive my unlimited ignorance in certain areas but all the tractors I have been around had a SINGLE "road gear" and you didn't shift them like a car. In fact none of the older tractors I have seen let yo shift while moving.

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

Thanks again guys for the education. Every time you post facts like the above I learn something new.

I guess I am spoiled by my hydrostat. My latched together brakes are right where my right foot expects to find a brake pedal. Of course, most of the time with my hydrostat, by the time you get your foot off the hydro pedal you are stopped before you can get your foot on the brake. I operate hours and hours in all sorts of conditions and rarrely use the brake pedal except when setting the parking brake.

The only way to get my tractor over about 18 MPH would be to drive it over a cliff or coast down a steep road in neutral so trying to get my foot on the brake to avoid running into other road traffic has not been a big issue.

Pat

 

[Soundguy]

Most sizeable tractors in the last hmm, 40 years or so permit/require shifting while traveling on the road like a car. I did used to drive a mid 60's Ford 5000 with no foot throttle and a crash box but you still had to shift it or you wouldn't make it up hills. Just had to double clutch and speed match with the throttle.

I just don't know how you could get anything done on a farm that requires road travel without shifting... maybe in the flatlands? I grew up with mostly late 70's machines and they had synchro boxs like a car. My friends had 80's stuff, much of it with clutchless powershift transmissions, the small stuff had synchro boxes.

Must have really burned up clutches in those oldies!

I like my ford 8spds too much to try to shift on the fly.. they don't call them crashboxes for nothing.

While in a mostly flat area.. I do have a couple hilles I traverse with my 5000 and 7610s.. I pull 10' and 15' mowers...

I've never had a problem taking off in 8th gear with a full load at a some incline with idle throttle, plus a little boost and some clutch slipping.

Was your 5000 the older 233ci model?

soundguy

 

[slowzuki]

Soundguy, do you shift while moving while mowing? I can't imagine not shifting while baling or mowing hay.

It was a best friends parents 5000. They bought it new. Put a new motor block and all in it around 1996, I'm not sure about much else about it other than the powersteering only works in one direction so it is a bear to rake hay with. The hourmeter says 6000 or something like that but the tractor was burned in the 80's by vandals and the electrics and tach were never repaired. Even the fuel shut off wasn't fixed, to shut it off you put it in high gear with the brakes on and popped the clutch.

To start you had to bump start down a hill or drag it with the other Ford. It had a loader that leaked down so you had to put blocks under the bucket.

I see they had a cab put on it and use it for snow removal now, my friends parents are in their late 70's now. Only a few beef cattle around the house now.

 

[Soundguy]

That thing had problems!

On my 5000 Full locked brakes plus a large mower and a hill, in 8th gear and the engine just puffs black smoke. Brakes are no where near enough to stop that 70hp engine.. and yes.. the brakes work just fine when not having to try to stop the engine. I back out of the barn at idle.. just about 600 rpms.. and If I forget and leave the brakes locked.. all she does is grunt a little and back out while the brakes groan.

As for shifting while mowing.. no. I usually run 5th gear straight thru.. I've not encountered anything the front axle would push over at that speed and not have it's 10' mower chew up.. that includes 3" hardwoods and 4" green trees.

soundguy

 

[slowzuki]

Ah no you couldn't stall it with the brakes, you had to stop first and dump the clutch at idle with tractor in 8th and the brakes tight.

 

[Soundguy]

Gosh.. what a horrible thing to do on an ongoing basis! He coulda used a coathanger bunji strapped to the side of the hood as a pull-stop. Vs abusing the heck out of it.

The owner might as well leaned a sledge hammer up against the tractor and every time he walked by just beat the bajeebers out of it.....

I'll never understand why some people go out of their way to outright abuse equipment. As a collector I've seen cases of machine neglect that I did not think were possible...

Still.. I think the machine had a problem... I keep my brakes locked inthe barn, and as I said.. i back out at idle.. I have on occasion had my foot slip of fthe clutch prematurely and popped the clutch, causing the tractor to lurch fast.. a quite shocking experience! So far havn't ever stalled that tractor down.. not looking forward to finding out exactly what it would take to stall it down!

soundguy

 

[dfkrug]

Once in a while, while I'm thinking about something else, I get off thetractor without putting it in neutral. And, it starts to shut down. But I shoudn't have been doing that. And the point is, I was thinking about something else, which is when accidents happen.

On an HST, the tranny IS the safety device in many situations. I never put
my range selector in N....keeping it in gear all the time keeps it from
moving when you get off, and my Kioti has no kill safety. Indeed, pushing
the clutch to start is of little value or safety, so I disabled it. I DO see
value in a clutch switch for any kind of gear tractor.

I also find a lot of value in being able to stand up while positioning loader
forks and creeping fwd, using a floor-mounted single pedal HST control. I
could not do that with my gear tractors or my 2-pedal HSTs, let alone with
a seat kill switch.

 

[patrick_g]

On an HST, the tranny IS the safety device in many situations. I never put
my range selector in N....keeping it in gear all the time keeps it from
moving when you get off, and my Kioti has no kill safety. Indeed, pushing
the clutch to start is of little value or safety, so I disabled it. I DO see
value in a clutch switch for any kind of gear tractor.

I also find a lot of value in being able to stand up while positioning loader
forks and creeping fwd, using a floor-mounted single pedal HST control. I
could not do that with my gear tractors or my 2-pedal HSTs, let alone with
a seat kill switch.

I can sort of see the reason for the PTO start lockout. I can see the reason for not starting with the HST pedal pressed too but I agree that the clutch having to be depressed doesn't do much for safety that I know about.

Maybe depressing the clutch lightens the load on the starter motor, especially in cold weather when the HST fluids are so stiff. That would not be an operator safety issue but a be kind to the machine sort of thing.

I'm not qualified to answer up regarding the clutch reducing starter load. Maybe one of the smart mechanical types can comment.

Pat

 

[slowzuki]

Sound guy, it seemed to be a tough girl. The clutch was fine when the engine was replaced and it had been shut off like that for 15 years or so. In 8th the brakes have quite a mechanical advantage over the engine. If you accidentially tried to stall it in low it just over powered them.

I remember trying to get stopped on the highway on the 5000 with an empty wagon in a hurry and I left 50 ft of rubber in a heartbeat. I was trying to turn into a side road at the time and I was heading in the no power steering direction.