Mark, thanks so much for the comments as well as the kind offer of the use of your wet saw! I wish I lived closer! It's always good to hear from those who have done it. Attached is a picture of the area to be tiled, the area underneath the cabinet (up to the bottom of the cabinet) as well as the strip above the sink, below the windows. The existing wall covering (can be seen to the left of the cabinet) which the tile will butt up against is 3/4" thick, it's actually a wallcovering and some kind of underlayment. The tile is 3/8" thick. Add the Hardiboard and I'm up to 5/8". Perhaps 1/16" for mastic and you're right, I'm almost flush. Should I go with the 1/2" Hardiboard which would make the tile stand about 1/4" proud of the existing wallcovering? My plan was to use bullnose tile across the top.
Cement Board
- Thread starter MikePA
- Start date
- Views: 4145
Egon
Epic Contributor
Mike:
Just a question. How are you going to handle the area over and behind the sink?
Egon
Just a question. How are you going to handle the area over and behind the sink?
Egon
Egon
Epic Contributor
Mike:
I was just thinking how simple it would be if you didn't have to trim to the sink contours and just have a straight run behind the sink.
Egon
I was just thinking how simple it would be if you didn't have to trim to the sink contours and just have a straight run behind the sink.
Egon
MarkV
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2000
- Messages
- 5,698
- Location
- Cedartown, Ga and N. Ga mountains
- Tractor
- 1998 Kubota B21, 2005 Kubota L39
Mike,
If it were me, I would apply new sheetrock and then the ¼ inch hardiboard to bring the area back to the same plane as the existing wall. I say this for several reasons. It would allow you to treat the seam between old and new with sheet rock mud and tape (I would use the mesh tape to tie to the Hardiboard) and it will bring the tile out far enough to stand proud of the counter top and sink back splash. That is an area that is susceptible to water/spills and you don’t want it going behind the cabinets. If the tile is more or less sitting on top of the counter, a bead of silicon chalk will make a good seal. I would be afraid that keeping the new tile surface and substrata flush to the existing wall would create a situation where you have two dissimilar materials butted against each other and they will expand and contract at different rates as the seasons change. This could mean that the seam between old and new and where the tile tucks behind the counter will open up in the winter (when the house is drier) creating a crack.
Looking at your photo brings up a question. Are you going to run the tile up along the cabinet on the left? It looks like you will have to add some wood to support whatever substrate you apply.
It looks like you will have the window trim and the cabinet bottom to kill the tile to on most of the run. I would lay out my tile so that the cut edges are there. That would save a bunch of nosed tile and is how it is normally done. I would also start with a full tile against a nosed trim piece on the left side and work to the sink. Now there could be an exception to the last sentence as the tiles layout to the sink. Your hardest cut will be around the sink edge. You do not want a small skinny edge right there. It will be to hard to cut. If it does work out that way, leave your cut edge next to the nose trim and have a full tile next to the sink. When you cut your tile to fit under the cabinet and window leave enough of a gap for a chalk bead. Same as above, two dissimilar materials will expand and contract at different rates.
Hope I made some sense here. By the way, aren’t those Bose radios great.
MarkV
If it were me, I would apply new sheetrock and then the ¼ inch hardiboard to bring the area back to the same plane as the existing wall. I say this for several reasons. It would allow you to treat the seam between old and new with sheet rock mud and tape (I would use the mesh tape to tie to the Hardiboard) and it will bring the tile out far enough to stand proud of the counter top and sink back splash. That is an area that is susceptible to water/spills and you don’t want it going behind the cabinets. If the tile is more or less sitting on top of the counter, a bead of silicon chalk will make a good seal. I would be afraid that keeping the new tile surface and substrata flush to the existing wall would create a situation where you have two dissimilar materials butted against each other and they will expand and contract at different rates as the seasons change. This could mean that the seam between old and new and where the tile tucks behind the counter will open up in the winter (when the house is drier) creating a crack.
Looking at your photo brings up a question. Are you going to run the tile up along the cabinet on the left? It looks like you will have to add some wood to support whatever substrate you apply.
It looks like you will have the window trim and the cabinet bottom to kill the tile to on most of the run. I would lay out my tile so that the cut edges are there. That would save a bunch of nosed tile and is how it is normally done. I would also start with a full tile against a nosed trim piece on the left side and work to the sink. Now there could be an exception to the last sentence as the tiles layout to the sink. Your hardest cut will be around the sink edge. You do not want a small skinny edge right there. It will be to hard to cut. If it does work out that way, leave your cut edge next to the nose trim and have a full tile next to the sink. When you cut your tile to fit under the cabinet and window leave enough of a gap for a chalk bead. Same as above, two dissimilar materials will expand and contract at different rates.
Hope I made some sense here. By the way, aren’t those Bose radios great.
MarkV
AndyR
Gold Member
Keep an eye out when you get your grout - if you are dealing with colored grout they now sell matching RTV (silicon caulk) for sealing the bottom edges.
<font color=blue>Looking at your photo brings up a question. Are you going to run the tile up along the cabinet on the left? It looks like you will have to add some wood to support whatever substrate you apply.</font color=blue>
No, the tile will stop at the base of the cabinet.
Thanks for all the other advice. I will install the drywall and 1/4" Hardiboard as you recommended, particularly to address the issue where the tile meets the counter. An additional twist to this is the tiles are 4" tiles plus the 'customer' wants a 2" accent tile (the tiny little squares that are connected with mesh on the back) running horizontally. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Once I've installed the drywall and Hardiboard, I will provide your instructions to her and let her lay the tile out.
BTW, do you just use joint compound and mesh where 2 pieces of Hardiboard meet?
<font color=blue>By the way, aren’t those Bose radios great.</font color=blue>
They really are. I was skeptical of the ads I saw, but the Bose radio lived up to it. Calling them a radio doesn't do justice to the sound quality.
No, the tile will stop at the base of the cabinet.
Thanks for all the other advice. I will install the drywall and 1/4" Hardiboard as you recommended, particularly to address the issue where the tile meets the counter. An additional twist to this is the tiles are 4" tiles plus the 'customer' wants a 2" accent tile (the tiny little squares that are connected with mesh on the back) running horizontally. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Once I've installed the drywall and Hardiboard, I will provide your instructions to her and let her lay the tile out.
BTW, do you just use joint compound and mesh where 2 pieces of Hardiboard meet?
<font color=blue>By the way, aren’t those Bose radios great.</font color=blue>
They really are. I was skeptical of the ads I saw, but the Bose radio lived up to it. Calling them a radio doesn't do justice to the sound quality.
StoneHeartFarm
Veteran Member
Andy
I know they make it but i haven't seen any at Depot yet. Is it supposed to be in the tile aisle? Or is it one of those special order products?
SHF
I know they make it but i haven't seen any at Depot yet. Is it supposed to be in the tile aisle? Or is it one of those special order products?
SHF
AndyR
Gold Member
Haven't seen it at HD - we got ours from a tile shop.
MarkV
Super Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2000
- Messages
- 5,698
- Location
- Cedartown, Ga and N. Ga mountains
- Tractor
- 1998 Kubota B21, 2005 Kubota L39
<font color=blue>do you just use joint compound and mesh where 2 pieces of Hardiboard meet?</font color=blue>
Just use some of the mesh tape and skim it with Mastic. That will work just fine and you don't need to wait for it to dry.
Drop me a note if any other questions come up.
MarkV
Just use some of the mesh tape and skim it with Mastic. That will work just fine and you don't need to wait for it to dry.
Drop me a note if any other questions come up.
MarkV
Well, I've finally got the drywall installed. Yes, it's been a long time. I'll spare everyone an explanation. My wife doesn't even believe the reasons. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
With only the 1/2" drywall installed, the tile will stand about 1/4" proud of the adjacent surface. Actually, there's only 3 places where the tile will touch these adjacent surfaces, probably no more than 6" total. So, I am probably not going to install the cement board and just put the tile on the drywall. Does the drywall need to be primed? Or do I just need to finish the joints and install the tile?
With only the 1/2" drywall installed, the tile will stand about 1/4" proud of the adjacent surface. Actually, there's only 3 places where the tile will touch these adjacent surfaces, probably no more than 6" total. So, I am probably not going to install the cement board and just put the tile on the drywall. Does the drywall need to be primed? Or do I just need to finish the joints and install the tile?
beenthere
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2001
- Messages
- 18,622
- Location
- Southern Wisconsin, USA
- Tractor
- JD_4x2_Gator, JD_4300, JD_425, JD_455 AWS, added JD_455, JD_110, JD_X485(sold)
Thirty five years ago I put ceramic tile on drywall (didn't have a choice then) in a shower. It is still there and doing fine. Have had to keep touching up the joints, but all is good. I did not prime the drywall, but put the mud on and then the tile. Hope this helps. There may be better ways to do it, but 35 years service is not too shabby.
<font color="blue"> Attached is a picture of the area to be tiled </font>
Well, just like giving elephants giving birth /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif, way too many months later (just ask my wife!), here's a picture of the area that has been tiled. Now, for the final question, does this tile and/or grout need to be sealed? If so, with what?
Well, just like giving elephants giving birth /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif, way too many months later (just ask my wife!), here's a picture of the area that has been tiled. Now, for the final question, does this tile and/or grout need to be sealed? If so, with what?
Attachments
JDgreen227
Super Member
My wife's brother and I just finished doing the project of a large corner whirlpool tub, the project required using four sheets of the cement board. We cut the board outdoors using a 7 1/4 circular saw with a thin rim diamond blade sold at Home Depot for about $15. It cuts really fast and smooth, the same saw blade does wonders for cutting concrete block.
When the tub was in place we had to cover the base with $500 worth of very expensive tile, some of the tiles cost $24 each which required using extra care while trimming. I purchased one of Home Depot's 3/4 hp wet cutting tile saws, the price of $88 plus tax was only a few dollars more than renting their tile saw for two days. The saw did an amazingly fast job of cutting 5/16 inch thick tile, once I got it home and tried it out I was so happy I decided to buy it instead of renting one. Just my two cents worth, and NO, I don't own any HD stock !! (just wish I did)
When the tub was in place we had to cover the base with $500 worth of very expensive tile, some of the tiles cost $24 each which required using extra care while trimming. I purchased one of Home Depot's 3/4 hp wet cutting tile saws, the price of $88 plus tax was only a few dollars more than renting their tile saw for two days. The saw did an amazingly fast job of cutting 5/16 inch thick tile, once I got it home and tried it out I was so happy I decided to buy it instead of renting one. Just my two cents worth, and NO, I don't own any HD stock !! (just wish I did)
Alan L.
Elite Member
You can cut the cement board with a utility knife by scoring both sides and then breaking it. If you have notches and stuff to cut out, you can turn an old saw blade around backwards and use your circular saw. Be sure to wear eye and lung protection.
I have had much experience with the green "water resistant" sheetrock, all of it very bad. I spent lots of time replacing old waterlogged sheetrock in my showers, replacing it with the green sheetrock, which was NO BETTER, and lasted on a year or so. Redid the whole thing with concrete board and that did the trick.
Now a backsplash is not going to get as wet as a shower wall, but if it was me, I'd use the concrete board.
I have had much experience with the green "water resistant" sheetrock, all of it very bad. I spent lots of time replacing old waterlogged sheetrock in my showers, replacing it with the green sheetrock, which was NO BETTER, and lasted on a year or so. Redid the whole thing with concrete board and that did the trick.
Now a backsplash is not going to get as wet as a shower wall, but if it was me, I'd use the concrete board.
I didn't see this post when you first started, but I have lots of experience with HardiPanel, which is the same stuff as HardiBacker except a little thicker for use as siding (HardiPlanks and HardiBoards are the same material). You can kinda be glad you ended up not using the HardiBacker, not because it isn't great (it is), but because it's hard to cut. I own a special type of power shears to cut it without dust, but it's a tool that looks like not much more than a hand power drill, but costs $450 -- not what the average homeowner would have (unless he's Tim from ToolTime).
Otherwise, you should use a diamond blade in a skill saw to cut it, because the cement will mess up any regular blades really fast. It also creates a lot of dust, so much so, that the saws wear out faster than the blades. Hardi stuff can't be scored and broken like Wonderboard or Durarock, because it's too dense. You can use a Rotozip for curves and small cuts, we also had some diamond-tipped saber saw blades.
I forget who it was that asked about a backer for copper, but it reminded me of one of the great properties of Hardi products -- not only are they pretty much rot-proof, they're also non-combustible. Makes a great backer for anything behind a stove.
We used the HardiPanels to be the non-combustible and rot-proof underlayment for outdoor kitchen grill islands. Worked absolutely great. We veneered the panels with whatever the customer wanted for appearance - tile, stucco, stone, granite, slate, brick facing, etc.
Otherwise, you should use a diamond blade in a skill saw to cut it, because the cement will mess up any regular blades really fast. It also creates a lot of dust, so much so, that the saws wear out faster than the blades. Hardi stuff can't be scored and broken like Wonderboard or Durarock, because it's too dense. You can use a Rotozip for curves and small cuts, we also had some diamond-tipped saber saw blades.
I forget who it was that asked about a backer for copper, but it reminded me of one of the great properties of Hardi products -- not only are they pretty much rot-proof, they're also non-combustible. Makes a great backer for anything behind a stove.
We used the HardiPanels to be the non-combustible and rot-proof underlayment for outdoor kitchen grill islands. Worked absolutely great. We veneered the panels with whatever the customer wanted for appearance - tile, stucco, stone, granite, slate, brick facing, etc.
ScottAR
Veteran Member
I scored the hardibacker under my tile floor. I used a carbide tipped scoring tool and went over it a few times. Worked fine with little dust. I wouldn't try it on the siding though.
bebster
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2003
- Messages
- 527
- Location
- Cape Cod, MA
- Tractor
- JD 4410 eHydro & 430FEL w/ 4N1 bucket & pallet forks
I am planning to build my own soaking tub (about 30" deep and 3' x 6') since I can't find anything pre-fabbed that deep. Don't care about the whirlpool jets, and other fancy feature, just a deep tub filled with hot water to soak the old bones in.
Was planning to use cement board on top of a wood frame. And then tile and grout over that. One simple drain in the bottom at a slight slope should do it for drainage, and a filler spout mounted near the side of the tub.
Do you think this is a good approach? I'd appreciate any suggestions.
Was planning to use cement board on top of a wood frame. And then tile and grout over that. One simple drain in the bottom at a slight slope should do it for drainage, and a filler spout mounted near the side of the tub.
Do you think this is a good approach? I'd appreciate any suggestions.
<font color="blue"> Do you think this is a good approach? I'd appreciate any suggestions. </font>
I recommend some kind of rubber membrane (like is used in a shower floor) that is attached on the top of your wooden frame, i.e., no holes in the membrane. I don't think grout is going to stay waterproof for long. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Most tile tub installs I've seen include a seamless metal pan and a waterproof membrane that extends up the sides.
I recommend some kind of rubber membrane (like is used in a shower floor) that is attached on the top of your wooden frame, i.e., no holes in the membrane. I don't think grout is going to stay waterproof for long. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Most tile tub installs I've seen include a seamless metal pan and a waterproof membrane that extends up the sides.
