CFL Rant
- Thread starter vulcancowboy
- Start date
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JSanders10
Silver Member
Arghhhh, this thread is right on topic with me.
I am in the midst of restoring an old farm house, and currently buying some lighting fixtures, ceiling fans, etc., and yesterday was at the local Marvin's hardware. I stood there looking at the bulbs like they were aliens.
They ARE alien to me, I had to call for help over to ask where to find what I needed and what for this fixture, what for that one.
Gahhhh... so complicated now.
I am in the midst of restoring an old farm house, and currently buying some lighting fixtures, ceiling fans, etc., and yesterday was at the local Marvin's hardware. I stood there looking at the bulbs like they were aliens.
They ARE alien to me, I had to call for help over to ask where to find what I needed and what for this fixture, what for that one.
Gahhhh... so complicated now.
dave1949
Super Star Member
And when lots of high efficiency bulbs get used to save power, the power company wants to raise rates to make up the difference in income.
Bruce
Not only for higher efficiency, solar power has them worried too. Their revenue stream/strategy is getting out-dated.
MikePA
Super Moderator
The Institute for Energy Research reports solar represent 0.3% of all energy produced in the US. Why would that worry any power company?
dave1949
Super Star Member
Because it is growing rapidly in residential use. Grid-tied systems can cut your monthly net use to zero or even negative kWh but in the same month you can draw heavy loads overnight, AC for hot days, etc.
If you are billed on net use, but the utility still needs to meet your peak demands, that isn't what most utility billing strategies are set up for. They are already shifting toward higher monthly service/connection fees versus usage.
MikePA
Super Moderator
'Growing fast' is spin, e.g., from 2011 to 2013 solar energy as a percentage of total US energy produced tripled. Fast growth. Yes. Important? It went from 0.1% to 0.3%.
PILOON
Super Star Member
My main gripe is that they always have '40 watt equivalent' and we mainly use 100 watt incandescent.lighting.
dave1949
Super Star Member
Spin? Nobody is spinning anything. After natural gas, solar is the fastest growing energy source in the US. As of Feb. 2014 the total installed solar capacity in the US is around 12 gigawatts. That's up from 2.3 gigawatts in 2010. There is still a ton of potential residential market to penetrate in addition to some utility-scale projects.
As far as the impact on utilities, you don't seem to understand the grid-tied dynamic at work: meet peak demands with lower revenue. Every solar kilowatt is dinging them.
How would anyone know how much my solar system produces? The utility doesn't know my total usage, they only know how much I took from and sent into the grid. Only I know how much the panels produced; that can only be read on the inverter display in my garage. There could be estimates based on installed capacity but I doubt there are very accurate totals of power actually produced for many thousands of residential grid-tied systems.
MikePA
Super Moderator
Solar produces 0.3% of all electricity consumed in the US. FACT
This percentage tripled in 2 years. FACT.
It's growth from a minuscule number to a slightly less minuscule number.. FACT.
Calling that fast growth is true but deceptive, i.e., spin.
When facts get in the way, hurl an insult.
Here's the link, Click Here. Argue with and insult them. Perhaps they don't understand 'grid-tied dynamics' either.
/exit.
LD1
Epic Contributor
They make nice 60w and 75w equivalent bulbs. Where are you using 100w bulbs at? Most of the fixtures in my house are multi-bulb, like 3 and 5 bulb fans. I wouldnt want that many 100w bulbs in the same room.
Bird
Rest in Peace
We were all told to change from incandescent to CFL, now we're being told to change from CFL to LED. What's going to be next, and how soon?
LD1
Epic Contributor
If the next is better than LED's, I am all for it.
While I wasnt a huge fan of CFL's, For 90% of the lights in my house, I would take them over incandescent's. Outdoors, or frequently switched lights like closets would be the only places I wouldnt.
Sure, CFL's dont get the rated lifespan, and some do take awhile to warm up, But looking past all the false claims, they arent as bad as I feel people make them out to be.
A bulb that lasts as long as an incandescent, Only costs about $1, and can save $6 per year @ 3hrs/day.......
Bird
Rest in Peace
I'm certainly not saying the changes aren't "better", in the long run, at least, but some changes are pretty expensive in the short term. I recently had all my 4' florescent lights (9 fixtures, 19 tubes) changed from magnetic ballasts to electronic and the tubes changed from T12 to T8. Yep, it's better, but it wasn't cheap.
dave1949
Super Star Member
What the heII is wrong with you?
This was your question:
The Institute for Energy Research reports solar represent 0.3% of all energy produced in the US. Why would that worry any power company?
This was my answer:
Because it is growing rapidly in residential use. Grid-tied systems can cut your monthly net use to zero or even negative kWh but in the same month you can draw heavy loads overnight, AC for hot days, etc.
If you are billed on net use, but the utility still needs to meet your peak demands, that isn't what most utility billing strategies are set up for. They are already shifting toward higher monthly service/connection fees versus usage.
Your response, rather than addressing the the point (future impact on utilities) being discussed was:
'Growing fast' is spin, e.g., from 2011 to 2013 solar energy as a percentage of total US energy produced tripled. Fast growth. Yes. Important? It went from 0.1% to 0.3%.
I really don't know what to make of your attitude. I don't think you do understand the future impact that utilities are worried about--which was my original statement:
Not only for higher efficiency, solar power has them worried too. Their revenue stream/strategy is getting out-dated.
Which is what I stated, and that you consider an insult because I said you don't understand something???:
As far as the impact on utilities, you don't seem to understand the grid-tied dynamic at work: meet peak demands with lower revenue. Every solar kilowatt is dinging them.
You are spoiling for an argument by accusing me of "spinning" and being "deceptive" about something that is not even germane to the discussion. If you weren't a moderator, I would report you to one.
There are all sorts of articles you could find that have much to say about utility rate structures and their relationship to solar generation.
Here is one to start with:
Power bills to rise for CMP customers after decision in controversial rate case
PORTLAND, Maine Central Maine Power Co. said power bills for residential and small business customers are set to go up an average of $2.07 per month, starting Sept. 1.
The rate increase is the result of a decision this week from the Maine Public Utilities Commission, following months of debate as the utility pushed for ways to disconnect its revenue from the amount of power delivered to customers on its lines.
You could also read this 2010 study on the subject of rate structures and their impact on solar power:
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy10osti/46782.pdf
Or, you could keep your nose stuck in this Wash. DC based lobbying front 403 Forbidden and remain ignorant.
LD1
Epic Contributor
When all my current 4' florescent die, I will replace them with LED fixtures.
Currently the only ones I have are in the garage and basement. (2) 4' T8 Tubes are 64 watts of power. That means I can run ~8 LED 60w bulbs for the same price. And weather or not is is more lumens I dont know, But If I replaced each 4' fixture with 2 or 3 LEDs, I think it would light up the area better based on some that I have already installed in the basement.
And its cheap too.
Round work box........50 cents
Round lampholder...$1.39
Cree LED..................$5
buckeyefarmer
Epic Contributor
Costco has 4' LED shop lights. I have put in 4 so far. They are brighter than what I had, half the watts.
dave1949
Super Star Member
It looks like next will be better LEDs that allow more of the light to be used:
Breakthrough in LED construction increases efficiency by 57 percent
Researchers at Princeton University claim to have come up with a way to change all that by using nanotechnology to increase the output of organic LEDs by 57 percent.
As nanotechnology plays out, I think there are going to be a lot of changes in many areas.
An organic LED sounds like something a person could eat after it dies. :laughing:
LD1
Epic Contributor
How much are those? Last time I saw them, they were pricey. And when 3 single bulb fixtures can be put up for ~$20-$25 with the same light output, they would have to be equal to or less $$ for me to consider.
KubotainNH
Veteran Member
My company swapped all the tubes over to LED. Amazing how much brighter they are for the same space. You go into an older room and the dull pulsating fluorescent lights are annoying after being in a new room.
OP
vulcancowboy
Gold Member
I have some 4' Fluorescent fixtures in my garage, don't like them, especially when it gets cold. What would be an inexpensive LED replacement? i.e. a single 100watt equivalent LED per 2 tube F40 fixtures?
