Chain Saw Question

[proudestmonkey]

That sounds sort of what I was looking at. I'd love to be able to limit my chain saw use to trees that are 2" and bigger, and use something like that for all the smaller ones. Right now, I am using the chain saw for everything that is 1" or bigger, and using a hand loper for smaller stuff--takes a lot of time with the hundreds of them that are all over my woods.

What did you pay for your echo trimmer setup with the saw blade? And where did you get it (if you don't mind my asking)?

 

[proudestmonkey]

That sounds sort of what I was looking at. I'd love to be able to limit my chain saw use to trees that are 2" and bigger, and use something like that for all the smaller ones. Right now, I am using the chain saw for everything that is 1" or bigger, and using a hand loper for smaller stuff--takes a lot of time with the hundreds of them that are all over my woods.

What did you pay for your echo trimmer setup with the saw blade? And where did you get it (if you don't mind my asking)?

 

[Spiffy]

Does the nose sprocket have 7 or 9 teeth? The book I have indicated the .043 bars have 7 teeth in the nose and .050 have 9. So if you are running a 9 tooth bar with .043 chain maybe it is a mismatch.

I don't know about Echo, but the Stihl brushcutters would rival your saw for price and easily more if you like power. Not saying it's not the right tool for the job, just forwarning to cushion the sticker shock! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Spiffy]

Does the nose sprocket have 7 or 9 teeth? The book I have indicated the .043 bars have 7 teeth in the nose and .050 have 9. So if you are running a 9 tooth bar with .043 chain maybe it is a mismatch.

I don't know about Echo, but the Stihl brushcutters would rival your saw for price and easily more if you like power. Not saying it's not the right tool for the job, just forwarning to cushion the sticker shock! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MarkV]

PM, I think your dealer is right that the problem is the small stuff you are cutting is pinching the blade and causing it to twist and bend the drive links. That is part of the reason that in a pervious post I mentioned that the small stuff can be a bigger safety issue than the larger stuff when using a chain saw.

I would suggest you modify your technique when cutting small stuff. Rather than cutting all the way through in one pass try to make a small cut on one side then move to the other for the final cut as you would with a larger tree. If you’re trying to cut close to the ground you are probably at a difficult angle to hold the saw properly. Try dropping the majority of the tree at waist height where you have better control and then come back and cut the stump. I find that my small saw likes to be at near full RPM’s when it engages smaller saplings to keep it from pinching. I liked the dealer’s idea of making your cuts near the base of the bar rather than the tip. The chain would be much less likely to twist there.

I think your saw is fine and it is just a matter of working out the technique which will come with more experience. Do keep in mind that the pinching and twisting you are experiencing is also what causes saws to kick back. Always keep a good hold on the saw and try to anticipate where the saw would go if it kicked back.

MarkV

 

[MarkV]

PM, I think your dealer is right that the problem is the small stuff you are cutting is pinching the blade and causing it to twist and bend the drive links. That is part of the reason that in a pervious post I mentioned that the small stuff can be a bigger safety issue than the larger stuff when using a chain saw.

I would suggest you modify your technique when cutting small stuff. Rather than cutting all the way through in one pass try to make a small cut on one side then move to the other for the final cut as you would with a larger tree. If you’re trying to cut close to the ground you are probably at a difficult angle to hold the saw properly. Try dropping the majority of the tree at waist height where you have better control and then come back and cut the stump. I find that my small saw likes to be at near full RPM’s when it engages smaller saplings to keep it from pinching. I liked the dealer’s idea of making your cuts near the base of the bar rather than the tip. The chain would be much less likely to twist there.

I think your saw is fine and it is just a matter of working out the technique which will come with more experience. Do keep in mind that the pinching and twisting you are experiencing is also what causes saws to kick back. Always keep a good hold on the saw and try to anticipate where the saw would go if it kicked back.

MarkV

 

[proudestmonkey]

I'll use your post to respond to several of the posts on chain/bar compatibility. Last night, curious about the possibility that this could be the problem, I checked the manual that came with the chain, and the compared the numbers in it for compatibility to the chain and the bar. I have the right chain and bar for this saw, and for each other. The gauge of the chain links is .043 (which is the inner distance between each of the metal pieces that hold the chain together (the links)). The size of the chain guides is .050, which is the proper size for the bar, which specifically calls for a .050 chain. So, I have the right chain and bar. In fact, the manual for the chain specifically calls for the model of the bar I have. I don't think there can be a problem with this.

 

[proudestmonkey]

I'll use your post to respond to several of the posts on chain/bar compatibility. Last night, curious about the possibility that this could be the problem, I checked the manual that came with the chain, and the compared the numbers in it for compatibility to the chain and the bar. I have the right chain and bar for this saw, and for each other. The gauge of the chain links is .043 (which is the inner distance between each of the metal pieces that hold the chain together (the links)). The size of the chain guides is .050, which is the proper size for the bar, which specifically calls for a .050 chain. So, I have the right chain and bar. In fact, the manual for the chain specifically calls for the model of the bar I have. I don't think there can be a problem with this.

 

[proudestmonkey]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( PM, I think your dealer is right that the problem is the small stuff you are cutting is pinching the blade and causing it to twist and bend the drive links. That is part of the reason that in a pervious post I mentioned that the small stuff can be a bigger safety issue than the larger stuff when using a chain saw.

I would suggest you modify your technique when cutting small stuff. Rather than cutting all the way through in one pass try to make a small cut on one side then move to the other for the final cut as you would with a larger tree. If you’re trying to cut close to the ground you are probably at a difficult angle to hold the saw properly. Try dropping the majority of the tree at waist height where you have better control and then come back and cut the stump. I find that my small saw likes to be at near full RPM’s when it engages smaller saplings to keep it from pinching. I liked the dealer’s idea of making your cuts near the base of the bar rather than the tip. The chain would be much less likely to twist there.

I think your saw is fine and it is just a matter of working out the technique which will come with more experience. Do keep in mind that the pinching and twisting you are experiencing is also what causes saws to kick back. Always keep a good hold on the saw and try to anticipate where the saw would go if it kicked back.

MarkV
)</font>

I have always thought there was a possibility that the problem is at least partially my needing to figure out how to cut through this stuff with better techniques. So, I will try your suggestions, the suggestions of others, and the suggestions of the dealer, and see if that helps.

Regardless of how I change my technique to adapt to the saw's particular "nuances," it still doesn't explain why I was able to cut buckthorn for a year with my old chain saw (same size) without ever bending the chain, and now, all of a sudden, with this new saw, I am bending the chain after an hour of cutting. Maybe this saw is just more susceptible to this based on how it is built. It might be that this chain saw just has quite a bit more power than the old one (it seems like it does), so I am cutting through stuff much more quickly. I think I need to slow down a bit, pace myself and the saw, and take each tree as a separate thing to get through (I tend to want to chop down several at a time because there are so many and they are so small).

I'll let everyone know if changing my way of doing things improves the bent chain phenomenon.

By the way, I really appreciate everyone's willingness to chime in on this. It is pretty clear to me, once again, that this forum has people with an incredible wealth of experience from which to draw as I get accustomed to the tools of a semi-rural life. Thank you all.

 

[proudestmonkey]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( PM, I think your dealer is right that the problem is the small stuff you are cutting is pinching the blade and causing it to twist and bend the drive links. That is part of the reason that in a pervious post I mentioned that the small stuff can be a bigger safety issue than the larger stuff when using a chain saw.

I would suggest you modify your technique when cutting small stuff. Rather than cutting all the way through in one pass try to make a small cut on one side then move to the other for the final cut as you would with a larger tree. If you’re trying to cut close to the ground you are probably at a difficult angle to hold the saw properly. Try dropping the majority of the tree at waist height where you have better control and then come back and cut the stump. I find that my small saw likes to be at near full RPM’s when it engages smaller saplings to keep it from pinching. I liked the dealer’s idea of making your cuts near the base of the bar rather than the tip. The chain would be much less likely to twist there.

I think your saw is fine and it is just a matter of working out the technique which will come with more experience. Do keep in mind that the pinching and twisting you are experiencing is also what causes saws to kick back. Always keep a good hold on the saw and try to anticipate where the saw would go if it kicked back.

MarkV
)</font>

I have always thought there was a possibility that the problem is at least partially my needing to figure out how to cut through this stuff with better techniques. So, I will try your suggestions, the suggestions of others, and the suggestions of the dealer, and see if that helps.

Regardless of how I change my technique to adapt to the saw's particular "nuances," it still doesn't explain why I was able to cut buckthorn for a year with my old chain saw (same size) without ever bending the chain, and now, all of a sudden, with this new saw, I am bending the chain after an hour of cutting. Maybe this saw is just more susceptible to this based on how it is built. It might be that this chain saw just has quite a bit more power than the old one (it seems like it does), so I am cutting through stuff much more quickly. I think I need to slow down a bit, pace myself and the saw, and take each tree as a separate thing to get through (I tend to want to chop down several at a time because there are so many and they are so small).

I'll let everyone know if changing my way of doing things improves the bent chain phenomenon.

By the way, I really appreciate everyone's willingness to chime in on this. It is pretty clear to me, once again, that this forum has people with an incredible wealth of experience from which to draw as I get accustomed to the tools of a semi-rural life. Thank you all.

 

[RayH]

As I said earlier, your not used to the power of this saw. Your old Poulan was under powered, is its like mine. When it would bind a little, it would just stall. Your new saw has more power and doesnt stall when bound. The chain keeps going and leaves the bar. When you get used to the saw, it will be fine.

 

[RayH]

As I said earlier, your not used to the power of this saw. Your old Poulan was under powered, is its like mine. When it would bind a little, it would just stall. Your new saw has more power and doesnt stall when bound. The chain keeps going and leaves the bar. When you get used to the saw, it will be fine.

 

[Spiffy]

By coincidence, I noticed a post in another forum where a 180 owner had switched to a wider chain because the .043 was too easy to throw and consequently bend. I think the 2-5" stuff was the issue there moreso than 1-2" but am not positive.

Perhaps techinique is the real key, but the wider gage does seem to make sense.

I'd really like to see how a 230 with a .325 X .063 would handle your stuff, but perhaps the money is better put to use on a brush cutter for taking out the stuff that's binding your saw.

 

[Spiffy]

By coincidence, I noticed a post in another forum where a 180 owner had switched to a wider chain because the .043 was too easy to throw and consequently bend. I think the 2-5" stuff was the issue there moreso than 1-2" but am not positive.

Perhaps techinique is the real key, but the wider gage does seem to make sense.

I'd really like to see how a 230 with a .325 X .063 would handle your stuff, but perhaps the money is better put to use on a brush cutter for taking out the stuff that's binding your saw.

 

[Berniep]

<font color="blue">What did you pay for your echo trimmer setup with the saw blade? And where did you get it (if you don't mind my asking)? </font>

I don't mind at all but the problem is I can't really remember.
It was about two years ago, I think it was about 280$ for the trimmer and around 30$ for the brush blade setup. I got it from the local amish lawn mower dealer(you wouldn't think amish would be up on thier power equipment but they really know their stuff) Not cheap but the best trimmer I have ever used. I think its a 23cc model. I got a straight shaft because I don't have to bend over to get the right angle when trimming. And with the saw blade it puts the blade farther from my body. I have worked this trimmer to and beyond the point of abuse. I was going to buy an echo chainsaw but I got the husky for a birthday present and have been happy with it. A word of caution to anyone who tries this with a trimmer. Be absolutley sure there are no people or animals around when cutting. If the teeth grab the trimmer can kick around in about a 90 degree arc and it WILL drastically shorten anything in its path. The nieghbors dog snuck up on me one time and I came within an inch of giving him the nickname lucky.

 

[Berniep]

<font color="blue">What did you pay for your echo trimmer setup with the saw blade? And where did you get it (if you don't mind my asking)? </font>

I don't mind at all but the problem is I can't really remember.
It was about two years ago, I think it was about 280$ for the trimmer and around 30$ for the brush blade setup. I got it from the local amish lawn mower dealer(you wouldn't think amish would be up on thier power equipment but they really know their stuff) Not cheap but the best trimmer I have ever used. I think its a 23cc model. I got a straight shaft because I don't have to bend over to get the right angle when trimming. And with the saw blade it puts the blade farther from my body. I have worked this trimmer to and beyond the point of abuse. I was going to buy an echo chainsaw but I got the husky for a birthday present and have been happy with it. A word of caution to anyone who tries this with a trimmer. Be absolutley sure there are no people or animals around when cutting. If the teeth grab the trimmer can kick around in about a 90 degree arc and it WILL drastically shorten anything in its path. The nieghbors dog snuck up on me one time and I came within an inch of giving him the nickname lucky.

 

[proudestmonkey]

I'm replying to my own first post in this thread, to give an update.

After reading all the helpful suggestions here, listening to the dealer, and re-reading the entire saw manual, I went out today to take down some more buckthorn, using a new chain (same type) with my old bar. I cut trees on and off for about 5 hours. No bent chain links, no chain popping off the bar, did all that I asked it to do.

I think I'll chalk it up to new guy using a chain saw (or "user error"). The dealer's suggestion about cutting from the bottom of the bar right near the saw seemed to really help. I also avoided where I could "limbing" the small trees, using my hand-lopper instead wherever I could. I also tried to make two cuts from either side of the tree to avoid pinching.

All in all, I am satisfied that it was not the saw. It was me.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I have learned a ton about how to properly use my saw.

Two other worthy points about chain saws.

In another forum, a doctor posted a suggestion to use cutting chaps. I am glad I listened. They arrived yesterday. Today, I used them, and would have had a nasty cut on my left leg if the chaps hadn't stopped the blade. I was cutting a smallish (2") tree, it buckled on me and spit the saw back at me, grazing my leg. The chain got caught up in the kevlar fibers, and stopped. I immediately shut the saw off and then had to take the chaps off to untangle it from the saw. I figured that was a good sign that I had done enough sawing today.

Also, someone in this or another thread mentioned the importance of a helmut. I didn't have one, so I used my bike helmet instead. Good thing. I was taking down several large (40' tall) buckthorns today. They were in an area where they had grown around a large oak tree (trunk diameter of the oak is probably 3 to 4 feet and the branches spread over a good 80 to 100 feet. As I was taking one of the larger buckthorns down, I felled it in a direction of a fairly clear path. The problem was that it was supporting the weight of a dead oak branch 30 feet up. Without the buckthorn as a prop, that branch came down right at me. I saw it coming, but was not able to avoid it entirely--thunk, right onto my helmut. I was braced for it, so I think I'll just have a sore neck tomorrow, but if I had had my Kubota hat on, I would have a nasty bump, or even a concussion.

So, thanks to this forum, I do not have a scratch on me tonight (I also picked up a better pair of cutting gloves the other day, so no thorn scratches on my wrists--Stihl brand gloves, cause their orange).

 

[proudestmonkey]

I'm replying to my own first post in this thread, to give an update.

After reading all the helpful suggestions here, listening to the dealer, and re-reading the entire saw manual, I went out today to take down some more buckthorn, using a new chain (same type) with my old bar. I cut trees on and off for about 5 hours. No bent chain links, no chain popping off the bar, did all that I asked it to do.

I think I'll chalk it up to new guy using a chain saw (or "user error"). The dealer's suggestion about cutting from the bottom of the bar right near the saw seemed to really help. I also avoided where I could "limbing" the small trees, using my hand-lopper instead wherever I could. I also tried to make two cuts from either side of the tree to avoid pinching.

All in all, I am satisfied that it was not the saw. It was me.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I have learned a ton about how to properly use my saw.

Two other worthy points about chain saws.

In another forum, a doctor posted a suggestion to use cutting chaps. I am glad I listened. They arrived yesterday. Today, I used them, and would have had a nasty cut on my left leg if the chaps hadn't stopped the blade. I was cutting a smallish (2") tree, it buckled on me and spit the saw back at me, grazing my leg. The chain got caught up in the kevlar fibers, and stopped. I immediately shut the saw off and then had to take the chaps off to untangle it from the saw. I figured that was a good sign that I had done enough sawing today.

Also, someone in this or another thread mentioned the importance of a helmut. I didn't have one, so I used my bike helmet instead. Good thing. I was taking down several large (40' tall) buckthorns today. They were in an area where they had grown around a large oak tree (trunk diameter of the oak is probably 3 to 4 feet and the branches spread over a good 80 to 100 feet. As I was taking one of the larger buckthorns down, I felled it in a direction of a fairly clear path. The problem was that it was supporting the weight of a dead oak branch 30 feet up. Without the buckthorn as a prop, that branch came down right at me. I saw it coming, but was not able to avoid it entirely--thunk, right onto my helmut. I was braced for it, so I think I'll just have a sore neck tomorrow, but if I had had my Kubota hat on, I would have a nasty bump, or even a concussion.

So, thanks to this forum, I do not have a scratch on me tonight (I also picked up a better pair of cutting gloves the other day, so no thorn scratches on my wrists--Stihl brand gloves, cause their orange).

 

[MarkV]

Wow PM, you found out the value of chaps and a helmet much faster than most. Glad you had both of them on at the time. I know you don’t want to hear it but once those chaps are damaged they should be replaced.

MarkV

 

[MarkV]

Wow PM, you found out the value of chaps and a helmet much faster than most. Glad you had both of them on at the time. I know you don’t want to hear it but once those chaps are damaged they should be replaced.

MarkV