Changing Power Steering Fluid??

[CJ4]

My TC55DA has just over 500 hrs and i've just completed doing all the major fluid changing in the Trans, Hydraulic, Rear End.....and the Front axle and Final Gear Reduction in each front axles. I noticed in the manuel it recommends changing the Power Steering Fluid. I must be stupid but i've never ever done that on anything. Is this a common maintenance procedure??? BTW, it sure was hard draining that 12 gallons or so of perfecting nice looking fluid and having to spend the $$$$ to refill it but I know you can visually see all of the contaminates. It was although a piece of mind knowing it's all new and fresh in there in those expensive parts!!!

 

[jinman]

I've got nearly 1500 hours on my TC45D and never have changed the power steering fluid or filter reservoir. Of course, I'm hoping that filter/reservoir is still protecting the pump, because that is the only thing I see as being subject to damage within the entire system. I just don't think the valve in the steering column or the hydraulic cylinder would be in any danger of contaminants like the pump might.

As far as the hydraulic fluid goes. That fluid has been circulated and filtered in the hydraulic system for its entire life. Why not mix it with diesel fuel and at least recoup some of your cost? I'd start with a 10:1 mixture and see how that works out. I'm going to start doing that with my own hydraulic fluid this weekend and I'll let you know how it turns out. I figure if I can burn it, I'll get a savings on fuel and also avoid the disposal hassle. Just be sure it's very clean (no contaminated drain buckets).

 

[Doc_Bob]

12 gallons? You sure?
I do what the manual tells me to do.
Bob

 

[DieselPower]

Yes, power steering fluid is a regular maintenance item just like any other fluid in a vehicle or piece of equipment. It's kind of like brake fluid in cars and trucks. Not many people ever flush their brake fluid systems when they should. I do mine every 3 years.

I would recommend highly against running any type of dirty used oil with your fuel. Even brand new fluid out of the bottle has additives that can cause deposits in injectors and cylinders. Using dirty oil would be even worse. You drained it out in the first place because it needs changed, dosen't make much sense to go running it through the most tight tolerance system in the engine.

 

[jinman]

Even brand new fluid out of the bottle has additives that can cause deposits in injectors and cylinders.

Without naming those additives and having firm experimental evidence to show they cause deposits, I will have to courteously, but firmly disagree. Added detergent agents are cleaning agents and that would seem to work just the opposite.

Does the injector pump also have tighter tolerance than a HST transmission? By mixing with fuel, the waste hydraulic fluid goes through the same fuel filter as the diesel fuel normally does. And what are we talking about, maybe 12 gallons every 500 hours or 1000 hours? That 12 gallons represents a minor amount compared to the amount of diesel fuel used during that time.

I may be "crying in my beer" in a few weeks, but I will be open and honest and report what action/reaction my tractor shows to the added hydraulic fluid. I agree fully that the oil has to be clean, but if it is, I just don't see why it can't be mixed and disposed of that way.

 

[Doc_Bob]

I agree fully that the oil has to be clean, but if it is, I just don't see why it can't be mixed and disposed of that way.

Yes, you will know. But will it take weeks or months?
Bob

 

[DieselPower]

Without naming those additives and having firm experimental evidence to show they cause deposits, I will have to courteously, but firmly disagree. Added detergent agents are cleaning agents and that would seem to work just the opposite.

Does the injector pump also have tighter tolerance than a HST transmission? By mixing with fuel, the waste hydraulic fluid goes through the same fuel filter as the diesel fuel normally does. And what are we talking about, maybe 12 gallons every 500 hours or 1000 hours? That 12 gallons represents a minor amount compared to the amount of diesel fuel used during that time.

I may be "crying in my beer" in a few weeks, but I will be open and honest and report what action/reaction my tractor shows to the added hydraulic fluid. I agree fully that the oil has to be clean, but if it is, I just don't see why it can't be mixed and disposed of that way.

I'll start with the question about tighter tolerances than HST transmissions. Yes, injectors have tighter tolerances with many of today's modern injectors having tolerances measured in the sub-micron range. Having visited the Bosch injector facility in Germany a few months ago I was to say the least amazed at how critical manufacturing tolerances were (and I'm not easily amazed ).

Additives, where to start. Which one of these do you think benefits your injection system, specifically nozzle passages and seats ?

Common friction modifiers, EP additives and anti-friction additives:

Molybdenum disulfide (MoS2)

Boron nitride (BN)

Tungsten disulfide (WS2)

Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)

Zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP)

Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP)

Tricresylphosphate (TCP)

Sulphurized fats



Rust and corrosion inhibitors:

Alkaline compounds;

Organic acids

Esters

Amino-acid derivatives




Anti-oxidants:

Aromatic sulfides

Aromatic amines

Hindered phenols



Phenolates, sulphonates and phosphonates of alkaline and alkaline-earth elements, such as calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg), sodium (Na) or Ba (barium), are used as detergents in lubricants.

Long chain hydrocarbons succinimides, such as polyisobutylene succinimides are used as dispersants in lubricants.

Co-polymers of polyalkyl methacrylates are used as pour point depressant in lubricants.

Acrylate polymers are used as viscosity index improvers in lubricants.

Dimethylsilicones (dimethylsiloxanes) is commonly used as anti-foaming agent in lubricants.

This list barely scratch's the surface when it comes to the additive toolbox available to a lubricants blender. Not all are used in hydraulic oil but many of them are. Don't forget that as much as 10 to 15 percent of a finished lubricant can be additives.

 

[jinman]

Additives, where to start. Which one of these do you think benefits your injection system, specifically nozzle passages and seats ?

Thanks for your exhaustive list of possible lubricant additives. Although it is long, it pales by comparison to the EPA list of additives to diesel fuel. This list is huge and just goes on and on, page after page.

Fuel Additives

Perhaps a more basic description of hydraulic fluid is available at Wikipedia. That site shows the basic compound and and lists additives, none of which are the metallic compounds you listed. Understand also that I am in no way suggesting that the special hydraulic fluid use in many aircraft, Skydrol, is acceptible as a fuel. It is not.


Hydraulic Fluid General Info

I know you have a lot of resources and you are an expert for additives to both fuels and lubricants. I was sure that when I challenged you I would get a very detailed response instead of a broad brush approach. I think it's my duty now to find out what the additives actally are in the hydraulic fluid used in my tractor. I'll try to decipher New Hollands spec and see what is included. I currently can only find a small amount (1-2%) of Zinc alkyl
dithiophosphate.

 

[CJ4]

Doc Bob,

Yes i'm sure.........the manual said the trans, hyd, and rear differential would hold 11.4 gallons but by the time you do the front axle and final reduction I would guess it was approximately 12 gallons. I purchased 3-5 gallon containers and have half or so of the 3rd one left.


Hummm, well, now the question is...........how do I drain and flush the power steering??? I suppose for the canister I can pull the hose off of the bottom but how would you flush the whole system...the lines etc must have alot of fluid in them??? I didn't notice if there's some special Power steering fluid for this tractor....does anyone know if it matters or can I get a good quality fluid and go with it?

 

[Ford850]

My DX55 manual says to remove the drain plug and drain the oil. Then to "rotate counter clockwise to remove the filter/reservoir assembly. Screw new filter in place until gasket contacts the sealing surface then tighten by hand 3/4 turn more. Remove filler plug and fill with Hy-Tran Ultra hydraulic oil." Capacity is 1.9 qts.