Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming?

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   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #21  
All Harrods delivery vehicles were battery powered in the thirties. Milk delivery vans were all battery powered. There were numerous battery powered vehicles. Electric trams were everywhere. Why is it not so? Why were the trolley buses discontinued? The greed of the oil companies who engineered the change.

Henry Fords wife never drove anything but an electric car.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #22  
The EV1 1996 to 1999 (15 years ago)

I forgot about this.

General Motors EV1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They where only for lease, but if you wanted to buy one, according to the link, you could for $34,000.

After the EV1, they came out with the Second Generation from 1999 to 2003 with better batteries, but sales where so bad that it was canceled.

Seems like the Volt is just repeating history, except with tax payer money being spent to repeat the previous failure.

Eddie
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #23  
Nissan Leaf all electric car:

Use patterns and owners profile Based on the aggregate information compiled until late April 2011 through the telematics systems included in all Leafs and reflecting the patterns of early adopters, Nissan found that the average trip length is 7 miles (11 km) and the average charging time is 2 hours and 11 minutes, with most owners charging on a Level 2, 220-volt charger at their homes. Nissan also found that early adopters are a combination of conscientious environmentalists and tech-savvy individuals.[209][210]



Additional information compiled until mid July 2011 and based on the owners profile from more than 4,000 Leaf delivered in the US market, Nissan found that the Leaf the primary vehicle for most owners; 60% of Leaf sales in the country took place in California, led by Los Angeles and San Francisco; Leaf owners drive less than 60 mi (97 km) a day; and the Toyota Prius is the number one vehicle also owned by Leaf buyers, with 19%. The information compiled allowed Nissan to build a profile of the first owners, finding that Leaf buyers are college educated; have excellent credit, with an average credit score of 750, and have a combined household income of US$140,000 a year.[180]
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #24  
All Harrods delivery vehicles were battery powered in the thirties. Milk delivery vans were all battery powered. There were numerous battery powered vehicles. Electric trams were everywhere. Why is it not so? Why were the trolley buses discontinued? The greed of the oil companies who engineered the change.

Henry Fords wife never drove anything but an electric car.

I'm at a loss how this happened. How did the "greed" of the oil company make the auto industry stop making electric cars?

Is there anything to this or just more blame the oil industry for everything?

Eddie
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #25  
I knew an acquaintance that had a new Mercury Hybrid SUV (similar to an explorer).....

He ordered it special, paid more for it and bragged about the fuel economy.....he stated that the battery was only good for 4 yrs and was a $3800. replacement......

He said "Ah, that ain't bad".......then I asked why would anyone in their right mind buy any car expecting a $3800 repair bill every 4 yrs.....NOT
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #26  
So you (GM) cancel a car which has a waiting list of people who are prepared to pay your lease rate (without ever having ownership) yet claim that people wouldn't buy it ?

I was on a waiting list for the Smart when they were first introduced for over a year and I couldn't get one. I suppose no-body wants one and they should cancel that program too. Then I was on a waiting list for the 2009 Jetta Tdi for nearly a year and the only reason we finally got one was because of the economic crisis allowed production to catch up to demand. I suppose VW should cancel that model too. Last year, we drove it from MI to Key West FL and back for $280 worth of fuel. Try that in your SUV.

No-one is expecting to change your mind, but for those of us who differ in our opinion, allow us to have choices too. I still think that the Volt could not make it because it tries to do too much. We need a Leaf with 1/4 the HP, half the battery and have it shed about 1/3 of its weight. Then it would be a lot cheaper too. Not everything has to move like a dragster.


From the Wikipedia site you mentioned:
In late 2003, General Motors, then led by CEO Rick Wagoner, officially canceled the EV1 program.[5][29] GM stated that it could not sell enough of the cars to make the EV1 profitable.[30] In addition, the cost of maintaining a parts supply and service infrastructure for the 15-year minimum required by the state of California meant that existing leases would not be renewed, and all the cars would have to be returned to GM's possession.
--------
In light of falling car sales later in the decade, as the world oil and financial crises began to take hold, opinions of the EV1 program began to change. In 2006, former GM Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner stated that his worst decision during his tenure at GM was "axing the EV1 electric-car program and not putting the right resources into hybrids.
----------
The documentary Who Killed The Electric Car? presents evidence that GM stuck with plans to cancel and scrap the car, despite apparent public interest. The film includes footage of GM employees on the EV1 team discussing a waiting list of people interested in leasing or purchasing EV1s. In 2003, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times attempted to lease an EV1 from GM, but was told that he "was welcome to join their waiting list, along with undisclosed others, for an indefinite period of time, but [his] chances of getting a car were slim."[33] Critics of GM and proponents of electric vehicles claim that GM feared the emergence of electrical vehicle technology because the cars might cut into their profitable spare parts market, as electric cars have far fewer moving parts than combustion vehicles. Critics further charged that when CARB, in response to the EV1, mandated that electric vehicles makeup a certain percentage of all automakers' sales, GM came to fear that the EV1 might encourage unwanted regulation in other states. GM battled against CARB regulations, going as far as to sue CARB in federal court.[15]

I forgot about this.

General Motors EV1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They where only for lease, but if you wanted to buy one, according to the link, you could for $34,000.

After the EV1, they came out with the Second Generation from 1999 to 2003 with better batteries, but sales where so bad that it was canceled.

Seems like the Volt is just repeating history, except with tax payer money being spent to repeat the previous failure.

Eddie
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #27  
Back about 1990 GM manufactured about 1500 Impact electric cars. Two seaters targeting commuters... But with radio and tape (before CD) and a heat pump for heat and ac. The concept cars were sent to utilities around the nation to test. I worked for one and got to test drive it a bit. It had enough pickup to almost snap your neck, and a top speed of 100 or so - they had governors on them to hold the speed down so we wouldn't get tickets in their fancy cars. The car was smooth and quiet. It had an electric motor on each wheel and you could easily remove one if it failed. Overall it had a third the moving parts of a conventional gasoline vehicle and a composite body that they said would make the car generational - owners would pass it down to the next generation. Since the speed of the various wheels was adjusted on curves, tires would last up to twice as long.

Battery technology was not as hot then so it got only 120 miles per charge, and took 6 to 8 hours to charge up. But utilities were willing to install special meters and sell the juice at night at a substantial time-of-use discount - about 40 per cent cheaper. The car, a two-seater, would have been in the $25,000 range retail - then a little high end, but with real savings potential.

It all looked great. Good concept, good little car, enough range for most commutes, low cost, easy maintenance... GM admitted the Impact was a great success, but pulled all the cars back to Detroit and crushed them. They then came out with the EV1 sort-of based on the Impact, but not as well engineered. The EV1 also did well with consumers. However, GM never sold them, just leased them. Later GM suddenly ended the EV1 program, called in all the cars and crushed them immediately. No real explanation was ever given.

And all that was 10 to 20 years ago. We know how to build electric cars, but simply don't.

I am a fan of electric cars, if they get the price reasonable. The idea of having more maintenance free cars that use electricity is attractive. The power would come from abundant natural gas, coal, nuclear and a touch of hydro.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #28  
Prius and Dodge PU here. 1998 Prius has 170,000 miles. Avg Gpm 45, and I drive with a heavy foot. The worst gas milage I ever got was 39gpm across the Salt Flats into a headwind.

Paid about $28,000, not the top of the line not the bottom. Save about $250 per year in Insurance by having the Prius. Never have seen a Prius broke down on the road. Never saw one towed. Never see one on a used car lot.

You might want to checkout the recent JD POWER report on Vehicle Dependability Study and Initial Quality Study.

When this Pruis hits 200,000 we're getting another and keeping the first one.

Replacement battery will run about $600 new. At about 225,000.
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #29  
Where does the electricity come from to charge the batteries in those electric cars?
Like I said, the reason I think it is good is the electricity pretty much comes from domestic fuel sources (coal etc) and that means the money stays within our economy.

I don't understand if the whole fuel/charging cycle is really better for the environment or not. Given the questionable supply chain for battery materials and eventual recycling/disposal of those batteries, I would say it's hard for experts to understand, let alone an average person.

Production in the US if flat because our governement will not let anybody drill new wells. They issue permits, but the regulations make it impossible to actually drill anything.
We might have to disagree about this. I think the oil companies did a pretty good job of finding all the low-hanging fruit in the U.S. in the early 1900s and now any oil that is left to be found is under the seas or in Alaska or something. I'm not really opposed to drilling for oil in some "wildlife refuge" in Alaska that no one ever visits but I understand why citizens in California do not want off-shore drilling off their beaches: Gulf of Mexico spill.

Even if we are going to find more domestic oil, we should still figure out better ways to use our other domestic fuel sources, like coal and other things we can use to produce electricity and send it to homes for charging electric cars.

The electric cars CLEARLY are not perfect or economical yet. We should still develop the technology, if for no other reason than, if we didn't need oil we could honestly care a lot less about several nations that are filled with people who hate us, and we continue to ship our money over there so they'll sell us the fuel we need, and spend time, money, and lives trying to keep peace so they can keep producing oil.

There are a lot of people on this forum that express a somewhat nationalistic view about their vehicle purchasing. They would rather not have a Nissan because it comes from Japan. Well, if your car was charged by electricity that was generated from coal mined in Kentucky, that's better than burning gasoline that was pulled out of the ground in Venezuela, right? The electric car costs too much right now but I would like it to keep improving so it will eventually be an option for us average people that can't afford to buy a Volt or a Prius just because it's trendy. :)
 
   / Chevy Volt Halted. Who did not see this coming? #30  
"Somehow we have to figure out a way to boost the cost of gasoline to that paid in Europe." Steven Chu- Secretary of Energy. The cost of gasoline in Europe is about $10 per gallon.

The Volt is a coal powered car. There is also a war on the production of coal in this country. "Under my plan ... the cost of electricity would necessary skyrocket."

This is exactly what the Administration has planned- the systematic destruction of our economy.
 
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