Chevy vs Ford Diesel Shootout

[Builder]

Exactly how many horse power is a steer?

I think it's an upgrade from what came stock from the factory.

 

[Builder]

We actually see eye to eye on something. The one fact you have wrong is assuming I dont want to see GM in the game. I fully agree if Ford or any other company was the only game in town the product would suffer. Just look at the phone company. Mine never works right. My cell phone is great because I have the ability to chose between many players and get whats best for me and my family. Same is true with autos. In the diesel truck world there are only 3 players. GM and Ford are battling it out right now and I am on record saying GM has a real winner now. Same is true with Ford. They must be innovative to keep GM at bay but only time will tell who wins this battle.

As for auto as a whole the introduction of foreign vehicles has changed things for ever. Lets face it, GM, Ford, and Dodge were making junk in the 70's and 80's. The only thing that keep them selling was they were easy to work on and US loyalty. Now with today's global economy that is gone. Its still a battle. Fords quality has been on par with the major imports for a few years now and in the last couple GM is now there also. The new battle is on price. Quality cars from Hyundai and Suzuki plus a few others will make it tough on the US manufactures to compete. How them and the UAW handle it is left to be seen.

So to sum it up I do not want GM to go away. I am smart enough to know competition is good and if one manufacture is left standing we will all suffer. That being said I will not support them for one reason only, the bail out. But for those who do that is a personal choice and none of my business. Buy what you want and I will buy what I want.

Chris

I don't know HOW you can say "Ford has a real winner right now" when the truck hasn't even hit the streets yet. That's a leap a faith I'm won't take because I'm not brand biased enough to do that. Only the biased would assume a truck is a "real winner" before anyone has even purchased one yet, but go ahead, stick your neck out. Judging by the humiliation GM just gave the new "higher powered" Ford, I'd say your neck is on the proverbial chopping block and GM has the axe up in the air. My guess is Dodge will put a beatin' on Ford, too. The Aisin tranny is a beast and Dodge uses the same AAM 11.5" true locker.

GM had a "real winner" in '07, too. I know. I put my hard earned money on the line and even though dargo owns more construction equipment than me, I knew I was buying a superior product. After reading the widespread 6L problem forums, I knew I bought the better truck.

I'm going to hold off on buying a new truck and pick up a used dually 4x4. Employees are asking for another truck.

 

[powerstroke444e]

I agree more the better company builds a truck means that the other has to be as good or better. Most of what I am seeing is that ford and dodge locally are selling and stocking more 3/4 and up trucks. Compared to the local chevy dealer seems to be having good luck with 1/2 ton and suv's.
In the diesel truck market I am noticing more and more clients that hotshot going with a small medium duty from someone other than the normal pick-up truck companies. IE the real truck companies are seeing the door open again. I will admit locally we do have several great dealers in what every you want so its more about what you want more than who builds it.
I will have hard time ever buying a GM product as I watched them stiffed all the investers then act liked nothing happened.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I don't know HOW you can say "Ford has a real winner right now" when the truck hasn't even hit the streets yet. That's a leap a faith I'm won't take because I'm not brand biased. Only the biased would assume a truck is a "real winner" before anyone has even purchased one yet, but go ahead, stick your neck out.

The only thing in question for Ford is the engine. They have had the rest of the truck right for years now. GM is in the same boat with a whole new chassis and suspension so there is as much rope for them to hang themselves. Neither one of the new generation trucks have been truly proven but on paper they are both spectacular trucks. Time will tell on the rest.

Chris

 

[Builder]

The only thing in question for Ford is the engine. They have had the rest of the truck right for years now. GM is in the same boat with a whole new chassis and suspension so there is as much rope for them to hang themselves. Neither one of the new generation trucks have been truly proven but on paper they are both spectacular trucks. Time will tell on the rest.

Chris

Yeah, the only thing in question is the engine. Ranks down there with the steering column in importance.:laughing: Seeing that Ford hasn't built a diesel engine in ~30 years, I'd say that's a breathtaking leap of faith on your part.

Ford's on their 4th diesel in 9 years, I think it's all on the line for them. If the new Mexican scorpion doesn't beat the competition, the competition will take the diesel segment lead away from Ford.

After GM won the first head to head with Ford (with less HP/TQ), I'd say Ford's off to a less than spectacular start.

Maybe the "high altitude excuse" will keep the blue oval blindered hopefull for another test at sea level.

 

[PoorMansCat]

The only thing in question for Ford is the engine. They have had the rest of the truck right for years now.

Chris

Actually, the new Ford 6 speed auto is in serious question right now. We have 6 of these trucks (F550) that are having trans. issues. We won't even get into the engine issues..
These transmissions are "flairing" when shifting into 3rd gear...
Apparently the trans. in the 3/4 ton and 1 ton diesel and gassers all share the same new trans, we have customers that have these trucks with the big gas engine that are having the same issues..

 

[Lt CHEG]

Yeah, the only thing in question is the engine. Ranks down there with the steering column in importance.:laughing: Seeing that Ford hasn't built a diesel engine in ~30 years, I'd say that's a breathtaking leap of faith on your part.

Ford's on their 4th diesel in 9 years, I think it's all on the line for them. If the new Mexican scorpion doesn't beat the competition, the competition will take the diesel segment lead away from Ford.

After GM won the first head to head with Ford (with less HP/TQ), I'd say Ford's off to a less than spectacular start.

Maybe the "high altitude excuse" will keep the blue oval blindered hopefull for another test at sea level.

As I understand it Ford's new 6.7 liter is just a bigger version of a diesel engine that they have been manufacturing for use in Europe with success for a few years now. The fact that the engine is made in Mexico doesn't mean too much to me as I think it's smart to build engines either out of the US or in right to work states within the US so as to keep the UAW out of the equation.

Quite frankly I don't think that too many minds will change regardless of what any company comes out with. There are a number of people that are loyal to a brand and won't change no matter what. They dispute facts and interject their opinion. My uncle for example would not believe that the GCWR on my truck was higher than his Dodge. I had to show him the info plate on the door frame for him to believe me and even then he still thought that his truck would pull more than mine. Frankly I couldn't care less. I buy what will do the job for me, at the best value and I use previous experiences to help me make decisions too.

Also there are still enough differences in the trucks to keep people from making wholesale switches in trucks. For example there are a number of people who would not consider a GM truck because it still has independent front suspension instead of a live axle. It doesn't matter if the GAWR is higher with the new GM independent suspension, some people still would only buy a solid axle. Some people wouldn't consider a half ton Ram for example because it has coil springs in the rear. It wouldn't matter that the heaviest thing they'd be hauling might be an ATV in the bed or a small 3,000 or 4,000 pound trailer but because it's not leaf sprung it's a non starter even though it might be superior for their uses.

Elmer Keith was quoted as saying, "Differences of opinion make for good horse races." I don't think that statement could possibly be any more true or applicable than it is for the current truck market. The reality is that we have some excellent choices to make and we've got it better now than we ever had it.

 

[Builder]

As I understand it Ford's new 6.7 liter is just a bigger version of a diesel engine that they have been manufacturing for use in Europe with success for a few years now. The fact that the engine is made in Mexico doesn't mean too much to me as I think it's smart to build engines either out of the US or in right to work states within the US so as to keep the UAW out of the equation.

Maybe, but put it in another chassis and mate it to a different trans and all kinds of crazy things can happen. Everyone thought the 6L ford would be the next coming because it was "proven" by IH. What a terrible flop it turned out to be.

Quite frankly I don't think that too many minds will change regardless of what any company comes out with. There are a number of people that are loyal to a brand and won't change no matter what. They dispute facts and interject their opinion. My uncle for example would not believe that the GCWR on my truck was higher than his Dodge. I had to show him the info plate on the door frame for him to believe me and even then he still thought that his truck would pull more than mine. Frankly I couldn't care less. I buy what will do the job for me, at the best value and I use previous experiences to help me make decisions too.

I agree, that's the best thing to do.

Also there are still enough differences in the trucks to keep people from making wholesale switches in trucks. For example there are a number of people who would not consider a GM truck because it still has independent front suspension instead of a live axle. It doesn't matter if the GAWR is higher with the new GM independent suspension, some people still would only buy a solid axle. Some people wouldn't consider a half ton Ram for example because it has coil springs in the rear. It wouldn't matter that the heaviest thing they'd be hauling might be an ATV in the bed or a small 3,000 or 4,000 pound trailer but because it's not leaf sprung it's a non starter even though it might be superior for their uses.

I was really worried about the IFS in my GM. It has turned out to be much more reliable in terms of repair costs than the 15 past Ford SFA trucks I've had. Not one penny dropped into anything on the front end of my GM. Previous Fords ate upper & lower ball joints on a yearly basis. Well over $500 to replace them.
You'll also see guys pump up the F-150 which is equipped with an IFS front axle as a great truck, then turn around and bash GM for having IFS and being inferior to Ford's SFA front axle in their other trucks. People talk out both sides of their necks here and elsewhere.

Elmer Keith was quoted as saying, "Differences of opinion make for good horse races." I don't think that statement could possibly be any more true or applicable than it is for the current truck market. The reality is that we have some excellent choices to make and we've got it better now than we ever had it.

100% agree. Even 3-5 year old trucks are great choices. They don't seem so "old tech" now. Although a huge expenditure for everyone except for a few guys here , it's much better now that the big 3 are offering trucks that are light years more capable than just 10 years ago.

 

[mwb]

...Seeing that Ford hasn't built a diesel engine in ~30 years, I'd say that's a breathtaking leap of faith on your part.

Ford's on their 4th diesel in 9 years, I think it's all on the line for them ...the competition will take the diesel segment lead away from Ford.

...I'd say Ford's off to a less than spectacular start.

Maybe the "high altitude excuse" will keep the blue oval blindered hopefull for another test at sea level.

Ford has been making a great truck for over 30 years. How great is relative to what the competition has to offer.

For the last nine, no, twenty years or more Ford has dominated the diesel market; they have made many changes and they have mostly been well received - sales and reviews prove this. The competition (GM) didn't even have a diesel for many of those years.

Less than spectacular? The ability for any vehicle to haul that much under those conditions is just amazing; the fact that the Chev did it better doesn't mean Ford failed in their development of the new diesel.

Ford is out on a limb with their new diesel; time will tell how successful they are with it. GM had their kick at this can with the 6.2 and 6.5 before they simply quit diesels. When they got the DMax / Allison combo they realized that the truck was not capable of supporting this drivetrain. Now they are bragging about upgraded frames and front suspension after years of problems? It takes more than a good engine to make a good truck. So now GM has the 'perfect' truck. How about cutting Ford (and the blindered) some of the same slack and let Ford work with that diesel for another year or so before condemning it? Ford apparently already has the 叢erfect truck (50+ years of #1 sales) and their new diesel looks very promising. The real test will start when the engines have hundreds of thousand of miles on them in the real world (reliability).

Good on GM for finally catching up and now setting a new benchmark (in power anyway):thumbsup:. The competition will not take the diesel segment away from Ford because Ford has proven, without a doubt, that they are in the game to stay.

 

[Builder]

Ford has been making a great truck for over 30 years. How great is relative to what the competition has to offer.

For the last nine, no, twenty years or more Ford has dominated the diesel market; they have made many changes and they have mostly been well received - sales and reviews prove this. The competition (GM) didn't even have a diesel for many of those years.

Less than spectacular? The ability for any vehicle to haul that much under those conditions is just amazing; the fact that the Chev did it better doesn't mean Ford failed in their development of the new diesel.

Ford is out on a limb with their new diesel; time will tell how successful they are with it. GM had their kick at this can with the 6.2 and 6.5 before they simply quit diesels. When they got the DMax / Allison combo they realized that the truck was not capable of supporting this drivetrain. Now they are bragging about upgraded frames and front suspension after years of problems? It takes more than a good engine to make a good truck. So now GM has the 'perfect' truck. How about cutting Ford (and the blindered) some of the same slack and let Ford work with that diesel for another year or so before condemning it? Ford apparently already has the 叢erfect truck (50+ years of #1 sales) and their new diesel looks very promising.

I never condemned anything. I said that calling the new Ford a winner is very risky and premature.

"The real test will start when the engines have hundreds of thousand of miles on them in the real world (reliability)".

Exactly what I said in my previous post!!! You can't declare an engine a winner before owners drive them for millions of miles.

Good on GM for finally catching up and now setting a new benchmark (in power anyway):thumbsup:. The competition will not take the diesel segment away from Ford because Ford has proven, without a doubt, that they are in the game to stay.

HUH??? Wasn't GM caught-up ("in power anyway") to Ford 5 years ago when its' DMAX diesel was making 360/650 and Ford's 6Lwas making 320/600 with its' 6L diesel? Caught up to Ford? Try left Ford in the dust! LOL

I swear, it's like the blue oval blindered just assume their engines are more powerful, but over the last 10 years, GM has led "in power anyway" category for at least 7 of the last 10 years. LOL :confused2:

If you were really paying attention, you'd see that Ford makes more power at the crank, but still can't beat GM because they can't put the HP/TQ to the ground because GM has a better tranny. :laughing: