Chevy vs Ford (Superbowl comm)

[Diamondpilot]

GM and Dodge will never be on the same level as Ford, fact... They asked for money to keep the poorly ran crap companies they are afloat. Ford only took monies in the form if grants which GM took millions to build the Volt which has been a big disappointment and Dodge took to develop new transmissions.

Chris

 

[Dmace]

Nobody said they're on the same level but Ford fans like to praise Ford for not taking any "bailouts" which is complete ********. They went begging for money too and would be bankrupt as well if not for the US and Euro handouts!

 

[deerefan]

GM and Dodge will never be on the same level as Ford, fact... They asked for money to keep the poorly ran crap companies they are afloat. Ford only took monies in the form if grants which GM took millions to build the Volt which has been a big disappointment and Dodge took to develop new transmissions.

Chris

You do know grant money comes from the pocket of taxpayers, right? That money just does not appear out of thin air. They were and are all on the take. All 3 are guilty. All 3 still take people for rides with bad designs and shunning warranty claims.

 

[BungeeII]

Funny ad. I love that the Twinkies survived. We always knew they could.

 

[Jamming]

Nobody said they're on the same level but Ford fans like to praise Ford for not taking any "bailouts" which is complete ********. They went begging for money too and would be bankrupt as well if not for the US and Euro handouts!

Ford Motor never asked for government money. When ?

 

[deerefan]

Ford Motor never asked for government money. When ?

A grant is govt money.

 

[jeffsw6]

The companies are not "guilty" for taking government grants. It would be irresponsible of them NOT to take those grants unless they thought public outcry would hurt their reputations and overall sales.

If you want someone to blame for government grants (to the auto industry or any other) the blame lies with Congress and the Whitehouse. You can't point the finger specifically at any one President, either; so before the Obama-bashing starts, keep in mind that the electric car grants, and others, have been going on long before he took office.

As far as the Volt goes, I don't know that anyone can say it is a *sales* failure. I think the manufacturing capacity GM claims just isn't true. They say they can make 17,000 units per year, but only 7200 sold last year. However, dealer inventory is less than 2 Volt units per dealer -- about 4000 cars in dealer inventory across 2600 participating dealers.

Dealers have been advertising that they have Volt units for sales when in fact the only ones on their lots are already committed to customers who ordered them. That's pretty wrong to not deliver the car to the customer as soon as it arrives from GM, but hundreds of dealers have been doing this because customers will come in with interest in a Volt, they see one there, and eventually they find out they need to wait their turn to get one, or buy a different car -- and of course they have plenty of other cars to offer.

All this while the NHTSA was still trying to figure out if the batteries were a fire hazard, and for a $45,000 MSRP (equipped) vehicle that really doesn't compare favorably to other vehicles in that price range, all because there are some customers with enough extra money that they can afford to buy something trendy, or they are environmentally conscious, or hope for long-term cost savings in fuel.

I think the only thing really wrong with the Volt is it should have a Cadillac logo on it and should be marketed as an environmentally-friendly luxury item, since the average joe is probably not going to have $45k to blow on it anyway. The tax credit isn't even setup for the average joe -- it is a non-refundable $7500 credit, so if your federal tax burden for the year is already less than $7500 you don't fully take advantage of it. The average family does not pay in that much federal income tax.

 

[deerefan]

The companies are not "guilty" for taking government grants. It would be irresponsible of them NOT to take those grants unless they thought public outcry would hurt their reputations and overall sales.

If you want someone to blame for government grants (to the auto industry or any other) the blame lies with Congress and the Whitehouse. You can't point the finger specifically at any one President, either; so before the Obama-bashing starts, keep in mind that the electric car grants, and others, have been going on long before he took office.

As far as the Volt goes, I don't know that anyone can say it is a *sales* failure. I think the manufacturing capacity GM claims just isn't true. They say they can make 17,000 units per year, but only 7200 sold last year. However, dealer inventory is less than 2 Volt units per dealer -- about 4000 cars in dealer inventory across 2600 participating dealers.

Dealers have been advertising that they have Volt units for sales when in fact the only ones on their lots are already committed to customers who ordered them. That's pretty wrong to not deliver the car to the customer as soon as it arrives from GM, but hundreds of dealers have been doing this because customers will come in with interest in a Volt, they see one there, and eventually they find out they need to wait their turn to get one, or buy a different car -- and of course they have plenty of other cars to offer.

All this while the NHTSA was still trying to figure out if the batteries were a fire hazard, and for a $45,000 MSRP (equipped) vehicle that really doesn't compare favorably to other vehicles in that price range, all because there are some customers with enough extra money that they can afford to buy something trendy, or they are environmentally conscious, or hope for long-term cost savings in fuel.

I think the only thing really wrong with the Volt is it should have a Cadillac logo on it and should be marketed as an environmentally-friendly luxury item, since the average joe is probably not going to have $45k to blow on it anyway. The tax credit isn't even setup for the average joe -- it is a non-refundable $7500 credit, so if your federal tax burden for the year is already less than $7500 you don't fully take advantage of it. The average family does not pay in that much federal income tax.

Yes I agree it is smart to take grants. I write grant applications for our local fd. I am pointing out that Ford took govt money, just in the form of grants. To say they did not take money from the govt is not accurate.

 

[jeffsw6]

Yes I agree it is smart to take grants. I write grant applications for our local fd. I am pointing out that Ford took govt money, just in the form of grants. To say they did not take money from the govt is not accurate.

To be honest, Ford and almost every auto-maker (foreign ones like BMW, Hyundai, etc.) participated in a secret Federal Reserve program where the Fed bought their commercial paper and propped up the bond market for auto financing.

Ford actually borrowed $16 BILLION through this SECRET Fed lending facility that no one knew about until journalists ultimately forced the Fed to release information about it.

However, Ford eventually was able to return to private-sector financing without taxpayers losing any money. Not true for GM, by that time, taxpayers already owned most of GM.

 

[Diamondpilot]

You do know grant money comes from the pocket of taxpayers, right? That money just does not appear out of thin air. They were and are all on the take. All 3 are guilty. All 3 still take people for rides with bad designs and shunning warranty claims.

Not the same thing, we all know that. Try telling that to the thousands of people that lost their shorts when the Old GM went belly up and left them penniless and now sell the New GM to the government and those too blind to see what his going on for about a $7 per share loss.

The only way us, the US Tax Payers, will get even with this GM BAILOUT DEAL is to sell what we have left to China or some other sucker.

Chris