Chinese clone engines, the good bad and the ugly

[Dr Dave]

If there engines are anything like there tools, look out, I consider china products scrap metal.

Dave

 

[cabinfevrr]

Personally, I wont even look at the clones on the store shelf. I feel china steals enough of everybodies, (not just USA) technology that they dont need my money to keep their economy afloat. I realize everybody has their own opinions on quality and value of the products they purchase. Available funds and personal needs, or wants, dont always balance out either. If you got to have it and the cheap'os are all you can afford, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I usually have good luck with the originals so if I need a Honda or a Kholer, I usually just buy the real thing and stay away from the clones.

oh yeah, I think i'll spend $1500 on the Honda instead of the $249 Chinese engine that is virtually the same, going so far as to even use Honda parts as a direct replacement (personal experience).

If you're so worried about quality, buy 3 of the Chinese motors - you'll still be cheaper than the Honda.

If Honda didn't charge an arm and a leg for their products, I'd choose honda too, but the markup is downright ridiculous.

 

[WilliamBos]

I was under the impression that Honda sold their old tooling to chinese companies?

oh yeah, I think i'll spend $1500 on the Honda instead of the $249 Chinese engine that is virtually the same, going so far as to even use Honda parts as a direct replacement (personal experience).

If you're so worried about quality, buy 3 of the Chinese motors - you'll still be cheaper than the Honda. We have one china honda clone from princess auto, and a Subaru on a pressure washer. The chonda runs as good as a honda, but the subaru runs better than both.

If Honda didn't charge an arm and a leg for their products, I'd choose honda too, but the markup is downright ridiculous.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Will I think you are correct or the companies just left them with the Chinese factories that they outsourced the manufacturing of Honda parts to China.

I think some are having problem with new realities in the global arena and still see Anglo's as being smarter than Chinese.

 

[WilliamBos]

Will I think you are correct or the companies just left them with the Chinese factories that they outsourced the manufacturing of Honda parts to China.

I think some are having problem with new realities in the global arena and still see Anglo's as being smarter than Chinese.

I agree. This fact will have to eventually be accepted. I find it funny that so many are anti China, yet are loyal Walmart (China mart)shoppers.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

It will be accepted but it make take a generation or two dying off first. I am old enough to remember Made in Japan denoted JUNK.

Germany and Japan will retain declining niche markets as China moves to become a top quality maker of goods. Not sure USA will do as well as Germany and Japan but time will tell.

 

[BHD]

a number of the Kohler are Chinese made, I choose the SH265, have not run it much yet, put oil in it and gasoline and it started on the second pull, (the first pull I did not have the switch on), it looks good,

by KY BILLY HILLY
I'm sure frequent early oil changes would help rid the block of machining trash. I read somewhere that someone whom used these regularly would change the oil after an hr, then 2, then 3 until it came out clean and clear which resulted in zero failures of the mechanical sort. A few qts of oil is a cheap investment if it results in longevity.

this sounds like very good advice,

 

[muddstopper]

oh yeah, I think i'll spend $1500 on the Honda instead of the $249 Chinese engine that is virtually the same, going so far as to even use Honda parts as a direct replacement (personal experience).

If you're so worried about quality, buy 3 of the Chinese motors - you'll still be cheaper than the Honda.

If Honda didn't charge an arm and a leg for their products, I'd choose honda too, but the markup is downright ridiculous.

The fact that Factory Honda parts are direct replacement for the chinese engines says one of 2 things. One either Honda has licensed their patents to the chinese manufacturers or China stole and is making illegal copies of the honda engines. All to often the copies are not legal copies and you have chinese companies making illegal copies, all with the chinese government backing and support, of other companies products. Ask BMW about the chinese knockoff that actual BMW parts will fit, fenders, doors, hoods, ect. Even after sueing the chinese car company, the Chinese courts rules that the autos where not anywhere alike and therefore there was no patent infringement. Why are the chinese parts so cheap, well for one the chinese companies dont have to spend any money on research, just buy and original and make a copy. Second, Clinton gave China favored trading status which allows China to import their product to the USA without haveing to pay any taxes or tariffs on those pruducts. All the while, try selling a American product to China, it will be hit with all kinds of special import fees that make it to expensive to compete with the illegal chinese made clones of the similar product. Chinese made products, a lot without proper product licenseing, are being sold in the Walmarts, Targets, Kmarts stores. So much so that Walmart sold chinese products contribute a full 10% of our entire trade deficit with China. Thats 10% thru just one company.

To me its not a matter of price or quality, its a matter of ethics. I cant control your ethical choices or buying decisions anymore than you can control mine. I can control mine and I choose to not support an economy that is destroying our own. And why would I want to buy 3 of something just to do what one quality product would do. Even the math doesnt support your decision, considering the price of three chinese goods is the same as the one quality goods, and then factor in the down time and expenses of haveing to change out the engines when each one goes bad. Not for me, I figure my time is worth something to.

 

[mikehaugen]

The fact that Factory Honda parts are direct replacement for the chinese engines says one of 2 things. One either Honda has licensed their patents to the chinese manufacturers or China stole and is making illegal copies of the honda engines. All to often the copies are not legal copies and you have chinese companies making illegal copies, all with the chinese government backing and support, of other companies products. Ask BMW about the chinese knockoff that actual BMW parts will fit, fenders, doors, hoods, ect. Even after sueing the chinese car company, the Chinese courts rules that the autos where not anywhere alike and therefore there was no patent infringement. Why are the chinese parts so cheap, well for one the chinese companies dont have to spend any money on research, just buy and original and make a copy. Second, Clinton gave China favored trading status which allows China to import their product to the USA without haveing to pay any taxes or tariffs on those pruducts. All the while, try selling a American product to China, it will be hit with all kinds of special import fees that make it to expensive to compete with the illegal chinese made clones of the similar product. Chinese made products, a lot without proper product licenseing, are being sold in the Walmarts, Targets, Kmarts stores. So much so that Walmart sold chinese products contribute a full 10% of our entire trade deficit with China. Thats 10% thru just one company.

To me its not a matter of price or quality, its a matter of ethics. I cant control your ethical choices or buying decisions anymore than you can control mine. I can control mine and I choose to not support an economy that is destroying our own. And why would I want to buy 3 of something just to do what one quality product would do. Even the math doesnt support your decision, considering the price of three chinese goods is the same as the one quality goods, and then factor in the down time and expenses of haveing to change out the engines when each one goes bad. Not for me, I figure my time is worth something to.

Amen brother! I am glad I didn't have to be the first one to say that this time. The problem, as already stated I believe, is that many kohler engines and parts are made in China as well. I was looking at a Kohler command 8hp and it was made in China! Couldn't believe it, even their "better" line is made overseas. I still need to look at hondas, I am not sure where they are made yet- probably Japan, but still better than China

 

[bcp]

Honda Power Equipment: manufacturing-locations

 

[charlz]

Once in a while I see pressure washers with cracked pumps available on Craigslist. Might be a source for decent engines at a reduced price.

 

[WilliamBos]

Honda Power Equipment: manufacturing-locations

Thanks for that link. Is it possible that Honda produces engines with a generic name on them for discount places like Harbour Freight and Princess Auto? Our Chonda engine runs buttery smooth, just like a genuine Honda would.

 

[mikehaugen]

Honda Power Equipment: manufacturing-locations

interesting, thanks for the link, but it sucks because I would really only be interested in the gx series. Maybe b&s then? Some of their better motors aren't too bad from what I hear, though I am not to impressed with their lower end ones. I guess there's always kawaski as well. We'll see.

 

[4shorts]

I got a Chinise 13 HP Honda clone on our pressure washer and have owned it for five years with zero issues. Starts first pull every time.

 

[handirifle]

We would all be shocked where these companies get their motors from. If someone feels buying a "name" brand guarantees where it was built, then go for it. You have to decide what you want to spend your money on and go for it. I have no doubt Honda factories in China are closely watched by Honda people, just like here in the US, but you can and will get a lemon from anyone that makes engines.

When I bought a brand new GMC 1500 in 2006, I was told it would either be made in Canada or Mexico! So much for buying American. By the way, I owned it for 8 months before GM had to buy it back through the lemon law. I took my money and bought a slightly used '06 Toyota Tundra. It had about 17k on it. I now have just under 70K on it, and it has NEVER been back for repairs. As one poster said, I fully remember when made in Japan meant "junk". I guess they figured that out huh?

Will the Chinese ever get as good as the Japanese? We will never know, and whose technology will it be, theirs or someone elses? Japan has something that our factories have lacked in a long time, in my opinion, and that is pride of workmanship, regardless of your pay. It's their culture so it's no surprise it carries over into quality of products.

I doubt Honda would keep doing business with them if they were stealing from them. At least not in keeping a factory there.

I would buy a chonda from HF, since you can get their offered extended warranties, and if it craps out swap it for new. Eventually you'll get a good one. But to pay 5 times as much for the right to say "its genuine Honda", when it may have been made in China anyway, is a waste of MY money.

I have bought quite a bit of HF stuff, including some big power tools, and most were very good, "for the money spent". No way would I compare my band saw to a high end band saw made elsewhere, but then if a high end saw was all that was available, I wouldn't own one at all. Thus is the average Joe's delima.

 

[daugen]

The GX390 engine on my Northern Tools powerwasher is a piece of industrial art. Never seen such fine castings.
Made in Thailand.
I think it's interesting that Honda manufactures only their lowest end motors in the US. They seem to trust Italy even less...
I have a good friend that repowers his equipment with clones and so far so good with them.

Now if only I could fit a V4 Wisconsin on my Gravely rider...:thumbsup:

 

[PILOON]

I purchased a 'Chonda' powered genset with 800 hrs showing.(eight hundred)
A contractor was the former owner.
Bargain; cost me $50.00 as the engine had 0 compression and I thought of PTO driving it.
B4 gutting I pulled the head and discovered that the cylinder was just like new, no ridges no scoring, so I cleaned any carbon deposits and checked the valves out.
The whole problem was very simple!
There was no clearance at the exhaust rocker!
A simple valve adjustment and she was up and running, and sweetly too!
Very impressive to say the least.

FYI the brand was Champion! a pure Honda clone.

 

[Rio_Grande]

I am thinking about trying to adapt a chonda to a kohler generator I have. Back when money was rolling in I bought it for our service trailer. It broke down last year after about two tanks of fuel ( we didn't use it but short bursts) some electronic module went out on the engine. I took it to a local mechanic and it turns out a 300.00 module went out..... I thought I bought a kohler so this crap wouldn't happen? I should have bought a 400.00 china unit to begin with.

 

[Travelover]

...............FYI the brand was Champion! a pure Honda clone.

My understanding from the RV forums is that Champion is a cut above in terms of Chinese quality control.

 

[ace26dan]

Personally, I wont even look at the clones on the store shelf. I feel china steals enough of everybodies, (not just USA) technology that they dont need my money to keep their economy afloat. I realize everybody has their own opinions on quality and value of the products they purchase. Available funds and personal needs, or wants, dont always balance out either. If you got to have it and the cheap'os are all you can afford, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I usually have good luck with the originals so if I need a Honda or a Kholer, I usually just buy the real thing and stay away from the clones.

I don't like supporting the Chinese either,but in the 60's and 70's,the hippie's and draft dodger's were sure against killing them!,(Viet Nam) if you think the Chinese were not there,wanna buy a bridge? enough politic's,the people that say the chonda's are junk,you might want to check and see where the real "Honda's" are assembled,a lot of American companies have factory's there that have product's made to their spec's,most aftermarket automobile part's are made in china,with stringent spec's, from U.S.companies',same as mexico,Canada etc.,now for my experience with "Chonda's,first I have a 10,000 watt portable generator,dual fuel,15 hp electric start,bought it in 2009,during and after hurricane Katrina we were without power for 9 days,this "chonda" ran our 1800 sq.foot house with out so much as a whimper,a tank of fuel and a 20lb propane bottle was good for two day's,after a re-fuel I would change the oil,hit the starter and it was ready for another two day's,there were times I forgot we were on generator power,I still have it,it still start's first and every time,I keep it in my shop,covered up,bring it out about once a month,crank it up and let it run the a/c in my shop for an hour or so just to give it some exercise,I did have to "excite" it a couple year's ago,but this can be done with a electric drill,just took a volt or two,and it was awake,I have since bought two more 4k "chonda's" one is great the other one flew apart,you chonda basher's excited!,I accidently dropped the governor shaft down in the motor while it was running,I patted myself on the back for that moment of brilliance,when I did an autopsy on the murdered engine,it has the same plastic oil slinger,like everything else,and to my surprise the governor had a very slight bend in it,and the oil slinger was broke in two,but that was all the damage,new governor shaft and slinger,it was resurrected from the "chonda" graveyard,now more politic's,ever bought a toyota,Nissan,Mitsubishi,japenese right?,but they are made in America now,right?,yes, some of them are,where do the profit's go for the sales of these "American" assembled car's,Washington D.C. to use in lieu of our taxes,support our military,nope!,it goes to Japan,the country we leveled in 1945,and re-built them into one of the largest economy's in the world,after WWII,we allowed them to make cheap japnese toy's to send over here,then we taught them how to make cheap transistor radio's and send over here,I played and listened to this stuff as a child,look at them now,ever heard of "Sony,Panasonic,that was our technology,I won't get started on Germany,we support every economy in the world,communist,dictatorship's,extremeist,all of 'em,so don't pick on China by bashing their product's on public forum's, we taught them how to make this stuff,another WWII story,the Chinese were being over run by our long time friend's,Japan,we saved their *** and taught them how to survive and catch up with the rest of the world,they did,they started selling us "chonda's" they aren't going away until the American worker get's off their ***,and does a day's work for a day's pay,until then,we will be using imported product's,like " chonda's",one more thing,look on the collar of your shirt,where was it made? I can tell you,"Viet Nam",where we lost 17,000 American soldier's to create a democracy,no one,not our own country supported us,we were spit on when we came home from a real killing war,some called it a police action,just like Korea,dem-dere po-po was firing real bullet's home boy!

Dan Whiles
United States Army
1970-1976,
Need me to go again?