Chinese Tools

[BillyP]

What do you guys think about Chinese tools! Is the money saved worth it? I for one would rather buy a qaulity tool and be done with it but.

How do you tell a quality Chinese tool from a mediocre? Or is there such a thing as quality in China? I can remember when the Japanese tools hit the market. Nothing but junk. At least that was my experience.

 

[texasjohn]

Do a search on Harbor Freight Tools or the abbreviation HF in TBN.

These folks sell an amazing array of such tools. I have a very large number of them.

Opinions vary... some say..forget it... buy american.

Then, others say... good luck... it's almost impossible to find stuff that is truly made in America anymore, and many name brands are actually from China.

My opinion is that HF has a satisfaction guaranteed policy and you can return what you don't like.

I've only taken one thing back... a pair of bolt cutters where the steel cutter bent on the first bolt.

I've purchased a huge amount from them. I've personally found that the stuff is of OK to pretty good quality....

oh, yes, I did take back a $9 electric drill that I tried to drill a 2.5 inch hole in steel with using a bimetal hole drill... it stripped its gears.. they replaced it no questions asked, not even the purchase reciept. Truth is I asked it to do more than I should have.

Being able to purchase stuff from them, using their sale flyers and on line electronic discount coupons... the stuff is just so inexpensive that you can't really afford to not purchase it if you have need for such a tool.

It's like the difference between a hand drill and an electric drill.... without an electric drill, you CAN get the job done... but it's an amazing struggle. I find that purchasing from HF I have the $ to purchase thier intermediate quality tool and stop struggeling to get a task done. I bought a hammer drill and drilling holes in concrete became a snap... I don't do it often, but it makes ALL the difference when I DO need to do so.

 

[YanmarFever]

Chinese tools are not heat treated (hardened) you can get hurt when a wrench strips out, or an impact socket breaks in your hand.

sooo... you get what you pay for.

I earn a living with tools therefore I buy american steel with a warranty.

Ernie

 

[Shimon]

I bought some CHINA made wrenches and they are pretty loose on bolt heads. I bought them so I would have a cheap set to modify if needed. They aren't even worth modifying. If you buy cheap you may end up with some tools that will work and last a long time but usually they just end up being...cheap. I used to always look for the cheapest tools but I've learned to spend my money once. Now I earn my living with my tools so I buy the best I can so I don't waste time with them.

But there is no right answer to this question since everyone has different needs and wants and budgets. If it looks and feels good to you, get it. If it's a power tool, go to a site like Amazon and read reviews about the tools to learn which are popular and which are defective.

 

[Bird]

But there is no right answer to this question since everyone has different needs and wants and budgets.

My opinion exactly. I have some cheap (Harbor Freight) tools, some medium priced tools and just a few of the expensive ones. If I were using them every day to make a living, I have some I'd replace, but for my uses they're very good.

 

[DieselPower]

Personally there are no Commie tools here. My main tools are Mac, Snap On and Matco with the odd ball SK, Proto, Wright and Blackhawk. My "modification" tools are Craftsman. I keep a couple set's of Craftsman wrench's and sockets around that I can cut up, weld, bend and modify for special applications. Having turned wrench's for a living the elchepo ones were not worth the bother or personal injury risk. My nuckles got banged up enough as it is, I didn't need any help from the tools.

 

[BTDT]

What I hate are the cheap imitation channel lock (slip joint type) pliers. When you try to squeeze harder to make them hold, and they slip at the "slip" joint, pinches fingers. Not good.

 

[Soundguy]

My .02$

Some stuff you can get a 'deal' on. IE.. I needed a set of 3/4" ratchets to do some work on big equipment. The harbor freight set with sockets from 1.5" -3" and a ratchet, breaker bar, and extension cost less than 40$. I've only needed tools of that size a very few times. Had i bought an american set.. it could have been 5x to 10x the price depending on what brand i got.

Same with my 1/2" set. So far i have had pipes on all of them..

While I have a good set of 3/8 tools.. most of my stuff for tractor maint is chinese.... only way to afford some of it.. especially the 'use once' type tools.

I've actually only broke a couple tools so far.. a small pipe wrench.. 6" one.. ( broke it with a pipe on it! .. also i managed to bust a big adjustable wrench also with a pipe on it.. IE.. using it as it should not have been being used.

Only other broke tools i have had were a 6" chop saw and a 4" angle grinder. the chop saw made it 2 years.. i figured that one should have made it a bit more.. ( however I used it solely to cut hardened pin stock inthe 1" - 1.25" range.. not an easy task..but on the other hand.. the angle grinder made it since the early 90's.. and I -abused it regularly-.. so i feel it made up for the chop saw...

Soundguy

 

[LMTC]

We have some of each of the following (thanks mainly to various estate auctions): Snap-on, S-K, Proto, Blackhawk, Matco, Mac, and I think there are one or two Wright sockets kicking around. And a couple of sets of flex-head Gearwrenches (we LOVE those things). We bought a fair amount of Craftsman 15 years ago. We also have, in the shop, a Harbor Freight 3/4" socket set, several of their 1/2" deep metric impact sets. Also several HF 3/8" aND 1/2" socket sets kicking around vehicles and trailer toolboxes.

I've seen the crummy channel lock pliers referenced by BTDT, and other items from China (and elsewhere) that were obviously junk. In my experience, most of the HF stuff is fairly well made. We do buy Channel-lock brand on those pliers, as they are on sale often enough to be close to cheap. Same with Vise-grips....haven't found cheapies that come close so far. We have never broken a HF 3/4" socket, despite using a 3' pipe at times on the ratchet. We have broken one 1/2" socket---the item was in a huge vise, mechanic had a pipe over the ratchet, probably 24-30", and cracked the socket.

OTOH, our limited expriences with the HF electric stuff is bad. Our electrics are Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Dewalt, and some Makita. Did I mention Milwaukee? Cordless stuff is Dewalt and Lincoln (grease gun....best $$ we ever spent). And one Porter-Cable portaband I bought from a guy 10 years ago for $50, replaced a bearing and a blade, and Shazam! It has been a "good-un".

 

[AlanB]

It is all in the application as the others have said.

I watch for the stuff to go on sale, and hopefully combine with a coupon as well.

I also kind of figure on some things the way it works for me is like this.

I buy the tool (lets say the small concrete mixer)
I buy the 2 year service plan.
I have $200 into our light duty Concrete mixer that the wife likes to use (as opposed to the heavy duty one.

It WILL last me 2 years, although I may have to assemble several more at some point along the way

First job we used it on, Paid for it in what I would have paid in rental of one, and I did not have to return it constantly. Many of our large jobs get spread out over a week or two as mowing customers etc. still have to be done. By owning the machines ourselves (tamper, concrete mixer etc.) I just leave them on site and don't worry about returning them, I also do not have to fool with detailed cleanup (obviously you want the drum clean, but not so clean as to return it to the rental yard)

I guess for my money, many of their tools are fine. I will second the opinion on the electric hand tools though, but I may just buy their big demo hammer they have on sale right now.

Again, buy the two year warranty, they swap it out when there is a problem, and I look at it as kind of a 2 year rental plan.

And this type of tool, in the construction trade, often does not last 2 years anyway, not so much because of the quality of the tool, but because of the environment, and care (or lack therof) of the tools.

I walked in the back yard yesterday, too see our plate compactor sitting in the yard, 20' from the shed it is supposed to be in Sometimes it is funny, other times it frustrates me.

 

[mjarrels]

Just a thought... would people buy made in North Korea products?

mark

 

[ToadHill]

I've had good experiences with the impact sockets. I don't buy expensive ones because my son looses them as fast as I buy them.

 

[YanmarFever]

Just a thought... would people buy made in North Korea products?

mark

Please name a communist country that makes good tools?

I dont know of any

 

[DieselPower]

Please name a communist country that makes good tools?

I dont know of any

Well said!

All of my tools are made in either the USA or Germany. The few elchepo ones made in China I have picked up at auctions over the years go straight in the dumpster.

 

[scott_vt]

Afternoon Billy,
Im under the same consensus that most posters are, in that if its a tool that Im going to be using frequently I will spend the extra money on the better tools.

If its something Im gonna use once or twice I could be tempted to buy Chinese, especially if it looks like it will hold up to that many uses !

 

[Soundguy]

I'd also like to add the the tools that are to be modified.. I'e torched, welded or cut on.. al all elcheap-o.. no need to put the blue axe to a 12$ craftsman when a 2$ HF will do for the single job I need it on.. etc.. Example.. I have a couple tractors with level check plugs. Over the years.. or from previous owner neglect, the plugs get chewed up due to some lazy people putting a pipe wrench on it vs a box end wrench.. When i can.. I like to save them ( why waste money? ).. and I will file them back flat. Sometimes it works out so that I can file them a tad and get a good fit on a common metric or SAE wrench.. other times I don't feel like taking more of fthan needed.. and my bucket of old roadside and el cheapo wrenches usually gets 'tapped' for that job... find some good close size wrench, and then file it's box to fit.. electro pencil it as for purpose. then throw in tractor tool box...

Soundguy

 

[AlanB]

Man Ernie and Diesel, while I respect the sentiment, I would find it amazing to find a shop with no chinese tools in it now days.

Even some of the stuff I thought were "good" tools, happened to flip on the back and find Made in China on the packages.

B & D and Dewalt comes to mind looking at their bits on Sunday.

I think you would be hard pressed in this town to find a diamond blade that did not come out of China.

I was thinking about this, this morning, this thread having made me think about it a bit, that if we ever had bad relations with say China, what "tools" or really "things" that used to be made in the US would then be just no longer available until some US company tooled back up to do it?

I certainly don't have the answers, I do use Chinese tools regularly, and feel I need to, so that I can be competitive, in the business's I work, while there are a lot of H2B and other legal Latin american Workers, there is also a fair number of illegal's not playing on the same tax / insurance playing field I must play on.

I do not know if I would buy a north Korean tool. I would expect when they first come out, they will be inferior like the Japanese and the Chinese where when they first came out, but look at what they developed into.

Interesting questions that get raised.

How far do you go to prevent having "communist Country" items in your home? I have to think many of the products I deal with on a daily basis, including this computer I bet, come from a communist country, and if not the entire device, I would certainly be willing to bet a majority of the components.

 

[YanmarFever]

Man Ernie and Diesel, while I respect the sentiment, I would find it amazing to find a shop with no chinese tools in it now days.

Even some of the stuff I thought were "good" tools, happened to flip on the back and find Made in China on the packages.

B & D and Dewalt comes to mind looking at their bits on Sunday.

I think you would be hard pressed in this town to find a diamond blade that did not come out of China.

I was thinking about this, this morning, this thread having made me think about it a bit, that if we ever had bad relations with say China, what "tools" or really "things" that used to be made in the US would then be just no longer available until some US company tooled back up to do it?



I certainly don't have the answers, I do use Chinese tools regularly, and feel I need to, so that I can be competitive, in the business's I work, while there are a lot of H2B and other legal Latin american Workers, there is also a fair number of illegal's not playing on the same tax / insurance playing field I must play on.

I do not know if I would buy a north Korean tool. I would expect when they first come out, they will be inferior like the Japanese and the Chinese where when they first came out, but look at what they developed into.

Interesting questions that get raised.

How far do you go to prevent having "communist Country" items in your home? I have to think many of the products I deal with on a daily basis, including this computer I bet, come from a communist country, and if not the entire device, I would certainly be willing to bet a majority of the components.

Alan, that was a fair reply,

However.... there are a certain caliber of mechanics and repair professionals in this country that put out their best everyday, and when they do, they demand alot from their tools.
I have used chinese tools years ago when I didnt know any better, my neck muscle is still paying the price.

My father, (rest his soul) owned a large manufacturing plant in Portland Oregon for close to 52 yrs. he was also a metalurgist for the US. govt.
He told me that in China only the Govt. had enough power to run PRODUCTION heat treat furnaces for their military equipment.

Private industry had very substandard methods for hardening their metal
which includes tools , tractors, ect...

China does produce some high quality items, BUT you have to pay a higher price for them, and the importers who bring in the cheap stuff do not want to pay that higher price, they would rather sell their cheaper junk to the unsuspecting buyer, who thinks he is really getting a bargain.
Same thing applies to tractors whether they come from china or vietnam.

You see Alan, in communist countrys when you have your tractor, car, tools, or what ever go bad, you are on your own, if you get hurt its to bad.
In America, the word travels fast when a company puts out a bad product, and we have consumer watchdog groups, govt regulations ect... and yes lawyers.

Just wait until chinese cars arrive in this country, (and they are on the way)!

The reason Japan makes high quality items in my opinion is because they are proud and WANT to be the best of the best and they arent a communist country,they are hard workers, (not just enough to get by)

Look at their cars & tractors

 

[AlanB]

Don't get me wrong Ernie, I am a HUGE fan of quality tools,,,, Just ask my wife and Snap On Man But there are places where I find the chinese tools acceptable. (and have made my living at least two days in a row with hand tools )

Much of the discussion of the Chinese stuff now, echoes very similar to what I heard in my youth in the Bultaco and Hodaka Motorcycle shops, that those little Japanese things would never amount to anything

Or my Grandfather, who when given a new little car to drive to Florida hoping he would carry them at his dealerships said, Nobody will ever buy these little German things, the quality is not there like a good American made car.

From the communism I have seen in E Germany, without personal gain as a motivation, things slowly just fall apart. May take longer with China, and they may adapt as times go on, but time will tell.

Sorry I wandered off the original posters topic, and am probably wading too deep into the "politics" pool.

I guess I am still in the "buy what suits the application" group. Politics to the side.

Of course I could always go buy one of those "Ranch Hand" tractors (from that one in Washington, and I would be BUYING AMERICAN! Go figure

 

[kenmac]

I can remember way back in time, when no body wanted to buy stuff made in Japan . It was called Japan Junk. Now, were lucky to get anything (except autos ) tools , etc, made in Japan