chisel vs moldboard plow

[hotchkiss]

I am looking for some opinions as to the advantages and disadvantages of each. Thanks.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I am looking for some opinions as to the advantages and disadvantages of each. Thanks.

Chisel plow;
advantages, More width per HP typically, better soil structure from breaking up compaction layers, depending on type of points, better mixing of soil, A true chisel plow leaves a slightly rougher surface which catches moisture and helps it to be absorbed into the ground rather than running off causing erosion. Leaves some surface crop residue to aid in prevention of erosion.

Disadvantages, Not sure there really are any

Moldboard plow;
Advantages, Buries surface crop residue better IF that's desired,

Disadvantages, Moldboard plowing tends to create a compaction layer at the depth the plow is operated at, High hp requirement,

I'm sure other will respond with many more advantages and disadvantages of each.

 

[builder2]

With a chisel plow you want to keep your tires out of the area you just chiseled. This requires that you chisel at least the width of the tractor (6' wide 7 shanks 1' O.C.).
With a moldboard , your tire drops into the furrow and you can run 1, 2, 3 or 4 bottoms and not effect the soil to much.
Chisel plowing is better to fight compaction and usually penetrates deeper without inverting the topsoil (8" to 12") where if you are able to plow that deep, you can competely bury the top soil.
Chisel rule of thumb here is 15 hp per shank (105hp) for 7 shanks.
Moldboard is basically the same per bottom (2 bottom=30hp).
Not to many folks here appear to have a 105 hp tractor available (me included).
It would be great to figure out a way to chisel plow with a lower hp tractor as it would be easier to disk and more moisture is retained in the ground.
The coulters on a plow as well as the disks on a chisel plow cut the crop residue and which keeps the implement from clogging up.
I picked up a 7 shank Sitrex spring loaded cultivator last year that works kind of like a chisel plow on previously tilled ground but I have to disk first if there is any kind of residue as it clogs up.
It uses cultivater points and I thought that if you were able to get a narrower twisted point (left and right twist) like chisel plows have that the residue may clear the shanks without disking.
The other problem with this set up compared to a true chisel plow is that the front to back spacing is about a third of what a normal 3ph chisel plow would be which is why the residue clears before contacting the rear shank.
If you were able to solve those issues, I am sure a boatload of smaller tractor owners would be in the market for it.

Paul

 

[hotchkiss]

Thanks. I have new 90 hp New Holland and am looking for the best way to get my corn fields ready to plant again. Would using a disk be best? Or, can I just use the chisel plow.

My neighbor has a chisel plow, but I don't like to rely on anyone for equipment if I can avoid it. What are some good models/makes of chisel plows that I might be able to find used? Thanks.

 

[builder2]

Thanks. I have new 90 hp New Holland and am looking for the best way to get my corn fields ready to plant again. Would using a disk be best? Or, can I just use the chisel plow.

My neighbor has a chisel plow, but I don't like to rely on anyone for equipment if I can avoid it. What are some good models/makes of chisel plows that I might be able to find used? Thanks.

That kind of depends on what your planting. There are many brands of chisel plows made and here is a link you can do a search on to start looking Plow-Chisel Agriculture North America. Some it seems are not as common such as Brady and they seem to be cheaper then say a Brillion or Glencoe etc..

It would be best to get one that you can easily get parts for in your area.

Paul

 

[radman1]

Thanks. I have new 90 hp New Holland and am looking for the best way to get my corn fields ready to plant again. Would using a disk be best? Or, can I just use the chisel plow.

My neighbor has a chisel plow, but I don't like to rely on anyone for equipment if I can avoid it. What are some good models/makes of chisel plows that I might be able to find used? Thanks.

You can use either a plow or chisel plow. Plows are slow. I would use chisel plow. In farming areas, both can be bought used quite cheaply. Both are relatively old school in farming but will get the job done. I have spent many months using both. I haven't seen a new chisel plow or plow in many years. 90 hp will do both. Probably 4 plow shares or 10-12" chisel plow. The advantage of the chisel is the points can be changed from straight or twisted shanks to sweeps. Sweeps cover a wider surface (V shaped and 10-12" wide) and can be used as tillage machine for weeds. Both will require a disk to smooth out the ground later. Disk by itself may work depending on the vegetation and soil compaction. A heavy disk can do an ok job in some cases. Light wt disk is a waste of time for breaking up the soil.

In my area Krause was a very common brand name for chisel plows. However, many different models and makes. Most are of similar design and I doubt it makes a lot of difference for 90 hp. Sme chisel plows will have wings that can be added/removed to get the right width.

 

[N80]

It seems that a chisel plow would not be too good for breaking up neglected or previously unplowed soil, unless it were extremely heavy duty. A moldboard, I have found, will turn almost anything short of concrete. A moldboard plow is also likely to be less expensive, but as mentioned, they are quite slow.

I would agree that a disk is also unlikely to break up dry or negelected soil very well. I would expect a disk, of almost any weight, to be fine for previously tilled or plowed soil. I just got a new light weight (800 pounds) 7 foot disk and was surprised what a couple of passes down my woods roads was able to do. Granted, the soil was not dry and the seedbed it created was fairly shallow.

The problem of compaction with a moldboard plow becomes evident almost immediately. In our soil, which is heavy in clay, the outside share peels the soil away leaving the bottom of the furrow smooth and shiny. Then, on the next pass, your tire runs through this furrow and even though it gets covered, you know it is even more compacted than before. I doubt this has much bearing on simple food plots but for farming it is easy to see how this would get worse every year.

I have used a two-bottom plow on all of my plots (which had never been plowed before) and then disked them and the effect has been nothing short of amazing. The plow turns the vegetation under and then the disk chops it all up. I like the fact that the plow turns the vegetation over and I'll probably plow each year. But, I've just discovered a nice chisel plow in one of my B-I-L's junk piles (same place I got the 2 bottom plow). It is rusty as all get out and it will need new points, but the shanks and springs look okay. So I may try it out too.

 

[hotchkiss]

Thanks. Although my farming is only for food plots, and one very expensive private farm in south eastern Ohio, I am trying to grow the best crops that I can. My concern as to the moldboard plow is that is to going to turn my limed topsoil under, whereas the chisel plow should only break things up and allow crops to grow better. Do you think that is what I will see. Thus far, all of my plots (approx. 30 acres) have been turned with a three point tiller. Someone needs to write an article in one of these hunting magazines about the true cost of food plots. I have taken five bucks in the 150 inch to 190 inch range over the last six years, but it is getting so expensive I am probably going to have to sell three or four hunts this year for the first time. Thanks again for your help.

 

[radman1]

It seems that a chisel plow would not be too good for breaking up neglected or previously unplowed soil, unless it were extremely heavy duty..

Chisel plow can go deeper than the plow and any respectable chisel can take it unless using very high hp (>150 hp) on small chisel plow. A multishank subsoiler is probably the best. My 5 shank subsoiler will stop my 200 hp Case IH in its tracks if too deep. Then it takes a large disc to break down the rough surface.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

It seems that a chisel plow would not be too good for breaking up neglected or previously unplowed soil, unless it were extremely heavy duty. A moldboard, I have found, will turn almost anything short of concrete. A moldboard plow is also likely to be less expensive, but as mentioned, they are quite slow.

Actually, a TRUE chisel plow would be BETTER for breaking up previously untilled or "neglected" soil. You would need a real chisel plow(and the HP to handle it) and NOT what many people call a chisel plow, which is merely a heavy field cultivator. The last thing neglected ground needs is further neglect. Moldboard plowing tends to create of enhance the compaction of soil. Chisel plows break up that compaction. Deep ripping or subsoiling would be better yet.

 

[N80]

Right. But I guess that hinges on what you mean by "TRUE" chisel plow. If you mean a chisel plow that works, well, there you go. I'm basing my impression off of one local experience: A fellow has been trying to prep a dove field out of an old pasture across from my place. He had no luck with a 65hp 4wd JD pulling a pretty heavy looking (new) chisel plow. It simply would not bite adequately in our drought hardened dirt (this was last summer). And yes, to me it looked like a heavy duty cultivator more than anything else. He immediately returned it. It was almost totally useless. The old moldboard plow, on the other hand, works fairly well in this 'soil'. Or at least it bit and turned the sod over. Compaction is surely a problem, but probably not so much for sunflowers and millet for a weekend dove field.

And I agree, I think a subsoiler or multitooth ripper is what he really needed. But he (we) have to use what we have sometimes.

I have also come to find out that the big old chisel plow I found in my B-I-L's junk barn actually belongs to this guy. It looks significantly more substantial than the new one he bought. So apparently he hasn't given up on the chisel plow idea. This one will need work and even though it is solid rust, it looks tough. And now that we've had a few months of rain, it may do the trick. It looks to be 7 or 8 feet wide and so will be faster than a moldboard plow too.

We will see.

 

[hotchkiss]

Thanks FWJ and others. FWJ you are a great asset. It seems as though you reply to more members than any other member. What is a "true chisel plow" as compared to the other that you mentioned? How can I tell them apart?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thanks FWJ and others. FWJ you are a great asset. It seems as though you reply to more members than any other member. What is a "true chisel plow" as compared to the other that you mentioned? How can I tell them apart?

I've got a lot of free time on my hands right now. Doc and family has me flying close to the ground. So, I spend too much time in front of the computer now.

I've seen tillage tools that some called a "chisel plow" that run the gammit from spring toothed harrow, to field cultivator, falling a little short of being a chisel plow. A REAL chisel plow is built sturdy enough, and with the right sort of points to work much deeper than those other tools. Around these parts, chiseling is 10" to 14" on average. Some areas chisel much deeper than that. Go any deeper here and you're into solid limestone in many places. Moldboard plowing is typically no deeper than 8" here. Field cultivators are more of a secondary tillage tool. Part of making a chisel plow work is moving at a sufficient ground speed. It takes real brute HP to pull a chisel plow deep enough and fast enough. They didn't really come into vogue until farm tractors in excess of 100 hp were common, And in our area, that 100 hp wouldn't pull more than 8' to 10' chisels at best. A neighbor who started chiseling in the mid 1970's and still does to this day now uses 140 hp worth of MFWD John Deere in front of a 12' DMI plow @ speeds of around 5mph. For a few years, back when I had a 110 hp MFWD tractor, I used a 10' IH chisel and struggled with it any deeper than 12". Point is, in MOST soils, you won't pull a REAL chisel plow at a satisfactory working depth with a small tractor. Use one at a shallow depth and you aren't really accomplishing what a chisel plow is intended for. If that's the case, you'd just as well use a lighte weight field cultivator.

 

[Egon]

Chisel plows are taking about HP that's just a tad more than most of here are familiar with.

 

[hotchkiss]

FWJ: Thanks for you input. You are a valuable member. How can I tell the difference between a true chisel plow and a heavy cultivator?????

 

[N80]

Both of the implements that my buddy was calling a chisel plow have springs (like a cultivator). Does a serious chisel plow have springs? If so, they must be serious springs. If not, it sounds like a serious chisel plow is more like a ripper with interchangeable points.

And I'd say that FWJ is right on the mark in terms of what it would take to really renovate a pasture here: something that would dig deep and use a lot of hp.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

FWJ: Thanks for you input. You are a valuable member. How can I tell the difference between a true chisel plow and a heavy cultivator?????

That answer would be something like trying to define the difference between a pond and a small lake. It's very subjective. For the most part, besides very heavy construction, chisel plows USUALLY have "points" where cultivators generally have "sweeps". Sweeps usually have sort of a winged shape and throw soil more than a point. Some chisel plows have sprung shanks, some don't. Chisel plows usually have a rigid shank, be it straight or parabolic. Cultivator shanks are USUALLY curved and "springy" but note as a hard and fast rule.

I guess the determining factor would be if it was able to withstand the rigors of being dragged through the ground at a depth of 12" to 15" and not folding like a lawn chair. Most field cultivators wouldn't take the punishment of being used that deep for very long.

 

[hotchkiss]

Well thanks for all you help again. It looks to me like I need to find a heavy duty/real chisel plow. But since I only have a 90 hp tractor MFWD, I should probably stick with a seven shank plow in order to plow fast and deep enough to do what needs to be done. I am not going to bid on it since it is too far away, but there is what appears to be a seven shank chisel plow on ebay right now. I suspect it is what you would call a true chisel plow. Again thanks for all your help. I grew up on a farm until I was about 21, go away from it for about 20 years, and now I am back and can't get enough of it.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Well thanks for all you help again. It looks to me like I need to find a heavy duty/real chisel plow. But since I only have a 90 hp tractor MFWD, I should probably stick with a seven shank plow in order to plow fast and deep enough to do what needs to be done. I am not going to bid on it since it is too far away, but there is what appears to be a seven shank chisel plow on ebay right now. I suspect it is what you would call a true chisel plow. Again thanks for all your help. I grew up on a farm until I was about 21, go away from it for about 20 years, and now I am back and can't get enough of it.

You can always remove the outer pair of shanks to reduce the width. Or try it with 7 first, then reduce it if it needs to be.

 

[N80]

Sweet Tractor has this thing that they call a renovater:

And this thing which they also call a pasture renovater. Looks tough:

They are calling this a chisel plow, it looks more like a very light duty cultivator:

But THIS looks like the real deal. They call it a chisel plow. No springs. Interchangeable points. Looks like it might have shear bolt protection, hard to tell.

They have it listed for $795.

As you can see, and as FWJ said, there is a lot of variation in terminology between 'chisel plow', 'cultivator' and 'renovator'.