Choice: food or solar fields

   / Choice: food or solar fields #221  
Would some one explain why an oil company is evil for making a profit. If you spend millions for the equipment, the oil lease, and a chance that the hole will come up dry you need to make money to stay in business. For example a one time use drill bit can cost $10,000 to $100,000 or more.

Every one keeps using Amazon and they make money. Apple is making money. The list could go on and on but no one is complaining that they make money. So why is it evil for the oil company to make a profit?
 
   / Choice: food or solar fields #222  
I’m generally in favor of wind turbines and solar but I’m definitely not all in on it. It has its limits though. I just read a story where Michigan may have enough power generation this summer if it gets hot. My take was to much reliance on wind and solar.
 
   / Choice: food or solar fields #223  
One thing that bothers me, and I’m going to pick on Hay Dude but I’ve seen others thinking the same way, bird kills. If that is a real issue stop driving, get rid of your cats, board up the windows of your house, they all kill more birds.

What I state above is fact, but I question it in a way. Do wind turbines kill a different kind of birds. It seems like a few times a year I hear a bird hit the window of my house, sometimes they fly away, sometimes they don’t. I’ve never had a hawk, an eagle, owl or vulture fly into my house nor have I seen a cat drag one up to the house. So do wind turbines kill more of these birds?
 
   / Choice: food or solar fields #224  
For every bird killed by a windmill, 1000 more are killed by the windows in your house and up to 4000 more are killed by cats. While you're mourning the death of that poor bird, keep in mind that back in 2015 the government released their findings of the damage caused by the Deepwater Horizon accident and found that “These injuries affected such a broad array of linked resources and ecological services over such a large area that they can best be described as an injury to the entire ecosystem of the northern Gulf of Mexico.

Here are some of the findings from the report (Deepwater Horizon's Impact on Wildlife | National Wildlife Federation) and additional peer-reviewed research into the impacts of the disaster:

Dolphins and Whales
  • Nearly all of the 21 species of dolphins and whales that live in the northern Gulf have demonstrable, quantifiable injuries.
  • The number of bottlenose dolphins in Barataria Bay and the Mississippi Sound—two places particularly affected by oil—are projected to decline by half. Multiple studies have determined that the injuries to bottlenose dolphins were caused by oil from the disaster.
  • It is estimated that it will take approximately one hundred years for the spinner dolphin population to recover.
  • There are only a few dozen Bryde's whales in the Gulf. Nearly half this population was exposed to oil, and nearly a quarter of these whales were likely killed. The long-term survival of this population is in doubt.
Sea Turtles
  • Scientists estimate that as many as 167,000 sea turtles of all ages were killed during the disaster.
  • In 2010, the once-remarkable recovery of the endangered Kemp's Ridley sea turtle halted abruptly. Scientists remain concerned about this species of sea turtle, which is known to congregate and feed in areas that were oiled off the Louisiana coast.
  • Heavy oil affected nearly a quarter of the Sargassum—a type of floating seaweed—in the northern Gulf. Sargassum is an important habitat for juvenile sea turtles.
Fish
  • Studies have determined that oil is particularly toxic for many species of larval fish, causing deformation and death. The federal study estimates that the disaster directly killed between two and five million larval fish.
  • The data does not indicate that the oil spill caused significant decreases in populations of commercially harvested fish species.
  • However, a number of species of fish have documented oil spill injuries. For example in 2011, some red snapper and other fish caught in oiled areas had unusual lesions, rotting fins, or oil in their livers. Oil spill impacts have been documented in fish species such as southern flounder, redfish, and killifish.
Birds
  • At least 93 species of bird were exposed to oil. The resulting loss of birds is expected to have meaningful effects on food webs of the northern Gulf of Mexico.
  • Species particularly affected include brown and white pelicans, laughing gulls, Audubon's shearwaters, northern gannets, clapper rails, black skimmers, white ibis, double-crested cormorants, common loons, and several species of tern.
  • A 2017 study found that birds with even relatively small amounts of oil present sustained damage to their red blood cells and had evidence of anemia, which can adversely affect reproduction and survival.
The Gulf Floor
  • A significant portion of the Gulf floor was affected by oil. The federal study confirmed that at least 770 square miles around the wellhead were affected, while a separate analysis determined that at least 1,200 square miles were affected. Both studies suggested that a significant amount of oil was likely deposited on the ocean floor outside the areas of known damage.
  • Scientists estimate the habitats on the bottom of the Gulf could take anywhere from multiple decades to hundreds of years to fully recover.
  • Coral colonies in five separate locations in the Gulf—three in deep sea and two in shallower waters—show signs of oil damage.
Coastal Habitats
  • In Louisiana, erosion rates approximately doubled along roughly 100 miles of shoreline. The effect lasted for at least three years. Louisiana already had one of the highest rates of wetlands erosion, even before the disaster.
  • Oil and response efforts killed as many as 8.3 billion oysters. These losses have put the sustainability of oysters in the Gulf of Mexico at risk.
That's just the damage from a single accident and list is extensive. It also does not include the death and destruction caused during normal day-to-day oil drilling and burning which is truly vast and global in scale. To compare the environmental damage caused by windmills and other "clean energy" solutions to the damage caused by oil and gas is like comparing a firecracker to an atomic bomb.
 
   / Choice: food or solar fields #225  
For every bird killed by a windmill, 1000 more are killed by the windows in your house and up to 4000 more are killed by cats. While you're mourning the death of that poor bird, keep in mind that back in 2015 the government released their findings of the damage caused by the Deepwater Horizon accident and found that “These injuries affected such a broad array of linked resources and ecological services over such a large area that they can best be described as an injury to the entire ecosystem of the northern Gulf of Mexico.

Here are some of the findings from the report (Deepwater Horizon's Impact on Wildlife | National Wildlife Federation) and additional peer-reviewed research into the impacts of the disaster:

Dolphins and Whales
  • Nearly all of the 21 species of dolphins and whales that live in the northern Gulf have demonstrable, quantifiable injuries.
  • The number of bottlenose dolphins in Barataria Bay and the Mississippi Sound—two places particularly affected by oil—are projected to decline by half. Multiple studies have determined that the injuries to bottlenose dolphins were caused by oil from the disaster.
  • It is estimated that it will take approximately one hundred years for the spinner dolphin population to recover.
  • There are only a few dozen Bryde's whales in the Gulf. Nearly half this population was exposed to oil, and nearly a quarter of these whales were likely killed. The long-term survival of this population is in doubt.
Sea Turtles
  • Scientists estimate that as many as 167,000 sea turtles of all ages were killed during the disaster.
  • In 2010, the once-remarkable recovery of the endangered Kemp's Ridley sea turtle halted abruptly. Scientists remain concerned about this species of sea turtle, which is known to congregate and feed in areas that were oiled off the Louisiana coast.
  • Heavy oil affected nearly a quarter of the Sargassum—a type of floating seaweed—in the northern Gulf. Sargassum is an important habitat for juvenile sea turtles.
Fish
  • Studies have determined that oil is particularly toxic for many species of larval fish, causing deformation and death. The federal study estimates that the disaster directly killed between two and five million larval fish.
  • The data does not indicate that the oil spill caused significant decreases in populations of commercially harvested fish species.
  • However, a number of species of fish have documented oil spill injuries. For example in 2011, some red snapper and other fish caught in oiled areas had unusual lesions, rotting fins, or oil in their livers. Oil spill impacts have been documented in fish species such as southern flounder, redfish, and killifish.
Birds
  • At least 93 species of bird were exposed to oil. The resulting loss of birds is expected to have meaningful effects on food webs of the northern Gulf of Mexico.
  • Species particularly affected include brown and white pelicans, laughing gulls, Audubon's shearwaters, northern gannets, clapper rails, black skimmers, white ibis, double-crested cormorants, common loons, and several species of tern.
  • A 2017 study found that birds with even relatively small amounts of oil present sustained damage to their red blood cells and had evidence of anemia, which can adversely affect reproduction and survival.
The Gulf Floor
  • A significant portion of the Gulf floor was affected by oil. The federal study confirmed that at least 770 square miles around the wellhead were affected, while a separate analysis determined that at least 1,200 square miles were affected. Both studies suggested that a significant amount of oil was likely deposited on the ocean floor outside the areas of known damage.
  • Scientists estimate the habitats on the bottom of the Gulf could take anywhere from multiple decades to hundreds of years to fully recover.
  • Coral colonies in five separate locations in the Gulf—three in deep sea and two in shallower waters—show signs of oil damage.
Coastal Habitats
  • In Louisiana, erosion rates approximately doubled along roughly 100 miles of shoreline. The effect lasted for at least three years. Louisiana already had one of the highest rates of wetlands erosion, even before the disaster.
  • Oil and response efforts killed as many as 8.3 billion oysters. These losses have put the sustainability of oysters in the Gulf of Mexico at risk.
That's just the damage from a single accident and list is extensive. It also does not include the death and destruction caused during normal day-to-day oil drilling and burning which is truly vast and global in scale. To compare the environmental damage caused by windmills and other "clean energy" solutions to the damage caused by oil and gas is like comparing a firecracker to an atomic bomb.

Go for a week and do not use anything made by or provided to you that is linked to oil. For example, you can not use your computer. After all the plastic more then likely is made from oil. It was shipped to the US on a ship using oil and diesel fuel, then the truck that got it to your store was diesel powered, or the Amazon truck used oil and diesel. Where did the lithium for the battery come from? The oil that was used to dig the lithium from the earth. The list goes on and on. Where did your food come from? How was it fertilized? Oops oil again.

Maybe we should go back to the horse and buggy. Wait that is cruel to the horse. Can not use whale oil to light the lamps. I guess we should set in the dark and freeze while we starve to death.

Yes accidents happen but to shutdown the oil industry would be insane.

And yes I would love to see someone in this day and age that is 100% oil, gas, and coal free.
 
   / Choice: food or solar fields #226  
And so...we start the statistics game:
I'll start with wind turbines. I'll move more on to solar if anyone wants...



Wind Farms Cause More Environmental Impact Than Previously Thought

By Leah Burrows, SEAS Communications on Oct 17, 2018



When it comes to energy production, there’s no such thing as a free lunch, unfortunately.
As the world begins its large-scale transition toward low-carbon energy sources, it is vital that the pros and cons of each type are well understood and the environmental impacts of renewable energy, small as they may be in comparison to coal and gas, are considered.
In two papers — published today in the journals Environmental Research Letters and Joule — Harvard University researchers find that the transition to wind or solar power in the U.S. would require five to 20 times more land than previously thought, and, if such large-scale wind farms were built, would warm average surface temperatures over the continental U.S. by 0.24 degrees Celsius.

“Wind beats coal by any environmental measure, but that doesn’t mean that its impacts are negligible,” said David Keith, the Gordon McKay Professor of Applied Physics at the Harvard John A. Paulson School of Engineering and Applied Sciences (SEAS) and senior author of the papers. “We must quickly transition away from fossil fuels to stop carbon emissions. In doing so, we must make choices between various low-carbon technologies, all of which have some social and environmental impacts.”

Keith is also professor of public policy at the Harvard Kennedy School.
One of the first steps to understanding the environmental impact of renewable technologies is to understand how much land would be required to meet future U.S. energy demands. Even starting with today’s energy demands, the land area and associated power densities required have long been debated by energy experts.

In previous research, Keith and co-authors modeled the generating capacity of large-scale wind farms and concluded that real-world wind power generation had been overestimated because they neglected to accurately account for the interactions between turbines and the atmosphere.
In 2013 research, Keith described how each wind turbine creates a “wind shadow” behind it where air has been slowed down by the turbine’s blades. Today’s commercial-scale wind farms carefully space turbines to reduce the impact of these wind shadows, but given the expectation that wind farms will continue to expand as demand for wind-derived electricity increases, interactions and associated climatic impacts cannot be avoided.
What was missing from this previous research, however, were observations to support the modeling. Then, a few months ago, the U.S. Geological Survey released the locations of 57,636 wind turbines around the U.S. Using this data set, in combination with several other U.S. government databases, Keith and postdoctoral fellow Lee Miller were able to quantify the power density of 411 wind farms and 1,150 solar photovoltaic plants operating in the U.S. during 2016.
“For wind, we found that the average power density — meaning the rate of energy generation divided by the encompassing area of the wind plant — was up to 100 times lower than estimates by some leading energy experts,” said Miller, who is the first author of both papers. “Most of these estimates failed to consider the turbine-atmosphere interaction. For an isolated wind turbine, interactions are not important at all, but once the wind farms are more than five to 10 kilometers deep, these interactions have a major impact on the power density.”

The observation-based wind power densities are also much lower than important estimates from the U.S. Department of Energy and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
For solar energy, the average power density (measured in watts per meter squared) is 10 times higher than wind power, but also much lower than estimates by leading energy experts.
This research suggests that not only will wind farms require more land to hit the proposed renewable energy targets but also, at such a large scale, would become an active player in the climate system.
The next question, as explored in the journal Joule, was how such large-scale wind farms would impact the climate system.
To estimate the impacts of wind power, Keith and Miller established a baseline for the 2012‒2014 U.S. climate using a standard weather-forecasting model. Then, they covered one-third of the continental U.S. with enough wind turbines to meet present-day U.S. electricity demand. The researchers found this scenario would warm the surface temperature of the continental U.S. by 0.24 degrees Celsius, with the largest changes occurring at night when surface temperatures increased by up to 1.5 degrees. This warming is the result of wind turbines actively mixing the atmosphere near the ground and aloft while simultaneously extracting from the atmosphere’s motion.
This research supports more than 10 other studies that observed warming near operational U.S. wind farms. Miller and Keith compared their simulations to satellite-based observational studies in North Texas and found roughly consistent temperature increases.
Miller and Keith are quick to point out the unlikeliness of the U.S. generating as much wind power as they simulate in their scenario, but localized warming occurs in even smaller projections. The follow-on question is then to understand when the growing benefits of reducing emissions are roughly equal to the near-instantaneous impacts of wind power.
The Harvard researchers found that the warming effect of wind turbines in the continental U.S. was actually larger than the effect of reduced emissions for the first century of its operation. This is because the warming effect is predominantly local to the wind farm, while greenhouse gas concentrations must be reduced globally before the benefits are realized.

Miller and Keith repeated the calculation for solar power and found that its climate impacts were about 10 times smaller than wind’s.
“The direct climate impacts of wind power are instant, while the benefits of reduced emissions accumulate slowly,” said Keith. “If your perspective is the next 10 years, wind power actually has — in some respects — more climate impact than coal or gas. If your perspective is the next thousand years, then wind power has enormously less climatic impact than coal or gas.
“The work should not be seen as a fundamental critique of wind power,” he said. “Some of wind’s climate impacts will be beneficial — several global studies show that wind power cools polar regions. Rather, the work should be seen as a first step in getting more serious about assessing these impacts for all renewables. Our hope is that our study, combined with the recent direct observations, marks a turning point where wind power’s climatic impacts begin to receive serious consideration in strategic decisions about decarbonizing the energy system.”

Assessing the impact of windfarms requires that all wind based latent heat be analyzed globally (whether or not there are windfarms). As I understand it, virtually all wind is eventually converted to heat due to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Windfarms may raise local temperatures and there are bound to be environmental effects due to increased temperatures close to windfarms as well as the reduction of air speeds downstream. However, the heat released by a windfarm is likely to have a minimal effect on global temperatures because wind energy is converted to heat eventually, regardless.


In my view the Harvard study is not worth the paper it is published on. It raises serious questions what Harvard is up to receiving millions from the global climate deniers Koch brothers. It is a serious setback to Harvard’s credibility and causes damage Harvard’s reputation.
The study reports a huge number of turbines disturbing the airflow without reporting the GWh it would generate that would displace all thermal electricity from fossil fuels and nuclear. Whatever local warming would be caused by wind turbines in this theoretical exercise it would be many orders of magnitude LESS than thermal load ro the immediate environment from generation of an equal amount of GWh of electricity from dirty fossil fuels and nuclear that would be displaced by clean wind electricity.
Measuring local thermal load from wind power generation from wind without factoring the averted local thermal load from the displaced fossil fuels and nuclear is frankly ludicrous.
Of course fossil fuels not only emit MUCH BIGGER local thermal loads (a single coal power plan in Massachusetts local thermal load eliminated 87% of the winter flounder in Mt Hope Bay) but also:
1) emit toxic pollution causing autism from mercury (no vaccines do not cause autism coal power plants do Autism Risk Linked To Distance From Power Plants, Other Mercury-releasing Sources)
2) emit tons of SO2 and other greenhouses gases causing global climate change.
So give me clean wind power any day over the alternative dirty electricity. We can NOT compare the impact of wind power as if the alternative was not no electricity. In fact there the threat from local warming would be reduced.


In my opinion. These windmills are a highly subsidized blight on the landscape that absolutely slaughter migrating birds by the thousands. With no regulations to stop them during peak migrations.I believe it we will see a decline in all raptors,such as the eagles had with DDT before the greenies wake up and see this is not a panacea.





Here we go...next turn...

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   / Choice: food or solar fields #227  
While solar is labeled as a clean and alternative energy source, there are still negative environmental implications that are not commonly discussed.

5 Disadvantages of Solar Energy to the Environment



The sun is an abundant energy source, providing us with clean and sustainable energy. An hour of sunlight received by the earth is calculated to be sufficient to meet our energy needs for a year! However, it is not without its potential disadvantages.

The environmental disadvantages of solar energy include habitat loss, alteration in land use, the strain on water resources,




exposure to hazardous materials, and pollution of soil, air, and water resources.

Habitat Loss

Larger utility-scale solar plants require a vast landscape for the installation of solar panels for the collection of energy. This means huge tracts of land need to be cleared of everything including vegetation. This can directly lead to the destruction and fragmentation of wildlife habitats.

In addition to this, the construction activities during the installation of large-scale solar power plants can lead to higher levels of air and noise pollution affecting the flora and fauna of a bigger neighborhood. Diverting water for the manufacture and cooling systems of solar panels is also found to have a negative impact on the wildlife.

Read more about Powering a House with Solar Panels Myths & Facts

There are problems with solar panels as well. The toxic chemicals used in the manufacture of solar panels may lead to the degradation of water resources and land, which in turn have an adverse influence on the existing wildlife of the area.

Alteration of land use

Larger utility-scale solar plants necessitate extensive parcels of land dedicated solely to the installation of solar panels for energy collection. Depending on the solar intensity, topography, and the technology used, a utility-scale solar power plant can take up to 3.5 – 16.5 acres per MW of power generated. This is one of the major negatives of solar energy.

Unlike wind power facilities, solar parks cannot share land space with agricultural fields or ranches. At the time of setting up the plant, a change in existing land use is inevitable, irrespective of whether it was used for residential purposes, agricultural needs, forest land, or recreational areas.

In addition to altering present land use, a solar farm may also lead to degradation of land due to exploration, extraction, manufacturing, and disposal of solar panels. The energy footprints on the land may go up so high that it would be too difficult or even impossible to return to its earlier state.

This solution to this conundrum is choosing locations of low-value and wastelands such as brownfields, disused or unusable mines, and along transportation and transmission corridors.

Strain on water resources

Though the generation of solar energy doesn’t require water directly, its use is unavoidable during the manufacturing and maintenance of solar panels and in the cooling system of Concentrating solar thermal plants (CSP). This is a significant drawback of solar energy.

The advancements in technology have minimized the use of water in the manufacturing stage, whereas the introduction of robotic cleaning devices has made it possible to control water consumption or even in some cases to manage without water.

All thermal electric plants need water as a coolant. The quantity of water required is determined by the location, design, and the model of the cooling system installed. CSP plants employing wet-recirculating technology in its cooling towers use 600-650 gallons of water per MWh of electricity produced.

Dry-cooling technology can bring down water consumption by 90%, but the tradeoffs are high cost and low efficiency. Moreover, this system is not practical when the temperatures cross 100°F.

Locations for solar parks and water availability is generally found not to go hand-in-hand. The locations with the best potential for harnessing solar energy tend to be in arid regions where water is already scarce. So, it is vital to weigh the pros and cons before choosing location and technology for solar power generation.

You can learn the alternatives to solar power from our “Complete Guide to Renewable Energy Sources“

Exposure to hazardous materials

During the manufacturing process of the photovoltaic cells, many hazardous materials are used for the cleaning and purification of the surface of the semiconductor. These chemicals include sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, nitric acid, methyl chloroform, hydrogen fluoride, and acetone. This is an important downside of solar panels.

The amount of chemical required depends on the type of cell manufactured, the level of cleaning needed, and the size of the semiconductor sheet. The workers in the manufacturing units face the risk of inhalation of silicon dust, the most commonly used semiconductor material. This is in addition to the risks posed by hazardous chemicals.

The newer thin-film PV cells present a graver threat than the traditional silicon PV cells. It contains more toxic chemicals such as copper indium gallium diselenide, gallium arsenide, and cadmium telluride.

There are governmental guidelines in place for the proper handling and disposal of these chemicals. However, flouting of these guidelines can comprise the health of workers involved as well as pose a public health hazard and environmental damage.

The good news is the financial incentives the manufacturers have for retrieving and recycling these materials. The high value and scarcity of the materials used in the manufacture of solar cells is a dissuading factor for their disposal in landfills.

You may also want to take a look at our guide on 7 Reasons Why You Should Recycle.

Pollution of soil, air, and water resources

Setting up large-scale solar farms necessitate clearing and grading of vast land areas, leading to compression of soil, excessive soil erosion, and alteration of drainage channels. Cost-cutting and time-saving efforts may result in incorrect disposal of the toxic chemicals used in the manufacturing of solar panels, raising the risk of land, water, and air pollution.

The construction activities in the area at the time of installation of large-scale solar power plants increase the particulate matter in the air, leading to contamination of air and water resources. The release of pathogens present in the soil can increase the risk of air pollution.

Solar energy is considered to be free of greenhouse gas emissions. However, the lifecycle emissions of PV cells during the manufacturing, transportation, installation, maintenance, and dismantlement are too significant to ignore.

Final word

Solar energy is not a perfect solution to our ever-expanding energy needs. It comes with a lot of benefits and advantages, but there is no denying that there are some drawbacks and limitations of solar power generation.
 
   / Choice: food or solar fields #228  
Put some big wind mills near bird sanctuaries off the coast of Long Island or Massachusetts.

You’ll hear bird lovers crying 24/7 from the highest rooftops.

Funny how that’s not a problem with “environmentalists”

PuffyC I don’t think we will be eliminating windows from buildings anytime soon, but windmills are now mandated by the environmentalists/politicians, so they won’t be going away, only increasing.

I guess thousands of beautiful birds of prey will die every year, some on the endangered species list.
 
   / Choice: food or solar fields #229  
One thing that bothers me, and I’m going to pick on Hay Dude but I’ve seen others thinking the same way, bird kills. If that is a real issue stop driving, get rid of your cats, board up the windows of your house, they all kill more birds.

What I state above is fact, but I question it in a way. Do wind turbines kill a different kind of birds. It seems like a few times a year I hear a bird hit the window of my house, sometimes they fly away, sometimes they don’t. I’ve never had a hawk, an eagle, owl or vulture fly into my house nor have I seen a cat drag one up to the house. So do wind turbines kill more of these birds?
Difference is, dodge man, that people must drive cars to make a living and acquire food, and have windows in their homes. Also, thats not the only reason for me to dislike windmills.
Windmills are not required for human existence.
So no, I’m not living in a concrete box or riding a bicycle to save some small birds.
I also have never seen a majestic Bald Eagle or Golden Eagle fly into my kitchen window, nor have I struck one with my car.
But we could generate energy in alternative ways than windmills.
 
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   / Choice: food or solar fields #230  
Go for a week and do not use anything made by or provided to you that is linked to oil. For example, you can not use your computer. After all the plastic more then likely is made from oil. It was shipped to the US on a ship using oil and diesel fuel, then the truck that got it to your store was diesel powered, or the Amazon truck used oil and diesel. Where did the lithium for the battery come from? The oil that was used to dig the lithium from the earth. The list goes on and on. Where did your food come from? How was it fertilized? Oops oil again.

Maybe we should go back to the horse and buggy. Wait that is cruel to the horse. Can not use whale oil to light the lamps. I guess we should set in the dark and freeze while we starve to death.

Yes accidents happen but to shutdown the oil industry would be insane.

And yes I would love to see someone in this day and age that is 100% oil, gas, and coal free.
You miss the point. The point is if people are going to get on their sanctimonious high horse about how awful so-called clean energy is, why are they not concerned with how awful the impacts of petroleum are, which are several orders of magnitude worse? The point is you can't give up on trying to get better because today's better solution isn't perfect. The point is that if we know nothing else it's that we can't keep doing what we've been doing.

To complain about the environmental damage caused by 'clean energy' is so utterly absurd compared to what we've been doing for decades with oil and gas it makes me shudder. What we call 'clean energy' has a lot of issues - anyone even remotely knowledgeable about the topic understands this already - but we're getting better every day. If you're going to take a stand against it at least offer up a legitimate argument, and maybe offer up a better solution as well. Pointing out that clean energy isn't 100% clean, something everyone already knows, isn't going to cut it.
 
 
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