Chronic gel problems

[Red Horse]

Hey Tractor Gurus,
Please help! My fairly new JD 5083E (new to me as of August) has gelled up 5 times in the last 3 weeks, and I need it daily for feeding out hay. Each time it's been cold the night before, but only one time was it REALLY cold (-15 F). It'll start right up with the block heater, but then after 5 minutes it sputters, gets no power, coughs black smoke and stalls out. Once I limp it into the heated shop (stalling many times along the way) and let it thaw for a few hours, it's fine again. The tractor lives in a pole barn, three-sided. I'd move it into the shop permanently but that's where the diesel truck lives.
I feel like I've tried just about everything. Changed both fuel filters multiple times, drained all the fuel out of the tractor's tank to make sure I didn't have any ice lurking in there, paste-tasted the diesel in my site tank (no water detected), added 50 gallons of kerosene to the site tank (it was year-old summer diesel in there), bought brand-new fuel from a gas station (which caused it to run a little more reliably, but still gelled up when it was -15), etc. Each time I fill-up, I pump and discard the first 5 gallons to come out of my site tank in case there's water. The fuel in the tractor tank has always been treated with plenty of Cetane Boost "Arctic Formula," and the 911 when I'm trying to thaw it. Doesn't seem to make a difference.
One strange thing is that when I drained all the fuel from the tractor tank, the LAST quart or so to come out was crystal clear. Shouldn't it have been the first thing to come out?
Tractor lived briefly in Florida before I got it. Could I have water lurking in my lines or in some weird compartment of my fuel tank that hasn't found its way out yet? Or wouldn't I have burned through that many months ago?
Or could the water and diesel in my site tank be emulsified, so the water isn't settling to the bottom? Fuel supplier has offered to test the fuel but that'll take another week.
I've been reading threads here about using a demulsification additive, or installing a heated filter?
Thinking of asking the dealer to do a full flush of the fuel lines and remove/clean the tank thoroughly. Not sure what else to do.
Much obliged for any wisdom and advice.
Thanks.

Point of info. If you had summer diesel in your tank, it would not have had any cold flow improver in it. Most good diesel fuels are treated with additives in colder climates starting around mid October. These additives contain a number of ingredients including lubricity improvers (removing sulfur removes lubricity that is need to protect fuel pump), deicers, detergents, and most importantly, cold flow improver. The cold flow improver is the most important additive. It does not eliminate wax but modifies the wax crystals physically so they flow freely-as opposed to locking together. When they lock together, that is the condition known as "waxing' and that is what clogs your fuel system.

The most effective thing to add to fuel in winter months, is kero. Typically you would need a 40% kero treat rate in poor quality fuel. Thus if you added 50 gallons to your skid tank, if it contained anymore than 75 gallons of summer fuel, you had a weaker winter blend.

In the old days, kero was the winter additive of choice. Today less so, primarily because not many distributors even carry kero. The other draw backs, it is expensive and has considerably less BTU content than diesel. thus you would suffer from poor mpg, and also a lack of power-in a truck, think of it as a gear or two lower on each hill.

One other point, once fuel has hit the point at which wax crystals form (the "cloud point), adding cold flow improver typically has little beneficial impact-the wax has formed and the damage is done-you have to keep the wax crystals from forming.

Last point, draining water from your storage tank is also most important as entrained water can lead to icing problems which combined with waxing spells big time trouble. If you are buying fuel from a station, if the place looks like a dump, be wary. If the fill cap covers over the underground storage tanks look like they could collect water during heavy rains, chances are they do-buy someplace else.

Hope this helps.

PS- Northfield huh? Spent many a cold morning for four years on the Upper Parade ground-can attest to your conditions

 

[Grahamguy]

If you added a double Racor system to your out put of your skid tank and a single Racor or Davco filter to your tractor you will see a big inprovment with this issue. I learned my lesson earlier this year by buying and stocking fuel for winter in the summer. I wont make that mistake again.

 

[Diamondpilot]

We get Howse around here at any truck stop, Menards, and Rural King stores.

Good stuff. In my opinion it's better than PS.

Chris

 

[Gulogulo]

My initial kero/diesel mix was horribly inadequate. 50 gallons kero to nearly 300 gallons summer fuel. It didn't stand a chance. Luckily my fuel guys are really good and they're going to pump the summer diesel out of my 600 gallon site tank and use it for people's home heating oil and credit me for those gallons. Then I'm going to get a much smaller tank, so I can cycle through it MUCH more often, and fill it with well-mixed winter diesel. And I found a nearby NAPA that sells Howes so I'll add that too, instead of Power Service. Hopefully that solves the issue.
Yes, Scooby, I do have a plastic sight-glass on my screw-on filter. It's hellish to remove when I change the filter, but very handy for showing me when I've got a gel problem.
Graham, I don't know about Racor but I'll look into it. Are those heated filters? Do any of you guys use heated filters?
Red Horse, you must be a Norwich alum. That place is the only thing keeping this town alive, despite the fact that it's tax-free. It's the sole reason people come through here, unless you count covered bridges and Darned Tough socks.

 

[Scooby074]

Racor makes an optional heater for their filters. They come standard without a heater in most cases.

Here's what it looks like in general terms. There are specific heaters for specific filters.

 

[Coyote machine]

My initial kero/diesel mix was horribly inadequate. 50 gallons kero to nearly 300 gallons summer fuel. It didn't stand a chance. Luckily my fuel guys are really good and they're going to pump the summer diesel out of my 600 gallon site tank and use it for people's home heating oil and credit me for those gallons. Then I'm going to get a much smaller tank, so I can cycle through it MUCH more often, and fill it with well-mixed winter diesel. And I found a nearby NAPA that sells Howes so I'll add that too, instead of Power Service. Hopefully that solves the issue.
Yes, Scooby, I do have a plastic sight-glass on my screw-on filter. It's hellish to remove when I change the filter, but very handy for showing me when I've got a gel problem.
Graham, I don't know about Racor but I'll look into it. Are those heated filters? Do any of you guys use heated filters?
Red Horse, you must be a Norwich alum. That place is the only thing keeping this town alive, despite the fact that it's tax-free. It's the sole reason people come through here, unless you count covered bridges and Darned Tough socks.

As far as removing the sight glass from the filter, are you greasing the o-ring prior to assembly? Also, try a strap wrench to get them to separate...

Scooby04, never knew there was a heated Racor bowl element available?! That's cool!:thumbsup:

 

[ovrszd]

First, if your tractor is parked outside, freezing temps, your problem isn't water, because it would be frozen and if there was enough of it in the filter to stop the tractor from running, or if there was some trapped in a line somewhere that would stop the tractor from running, it would not start. Water is not water when below 32 degrees F.

Your problem is fuel gelling. Number 2 diesel is only effective to 20 degrees F. Below that, it is susceptable to gelling. If you've never saw diesel fuel gel, it looks a lot like a 7-Eleven Slurpy. Will not strain thru the filter and causes the system to starve and the engine to slowly lose rpm and die. Sometimes you can restart for a few seconds and then die again. Similar to what you described in the beginning about limping the tractor into a heated building.

Another common symptom with gelled fuel. The engine starts and runs a few seconds or maybe a minute, then dies. This happens because the standing fuel in the tank might not be gelled yet. But when the engine is started and it is pumped out of the "warm" tank thru cold lines and into a cold filter it gels. This problem will only rectify itself if the system is moved in a warm building,,,, or if you are real lucky,,,, you can keep it running long enough to circulate and warm the fuel thru the engine fuel rail system because of the return line back to the tank.

As for you storage tank. Same rules above apply. If you tank has water in it and it's stored outside, water is ONLY a problem if there's enough to freeze over the pump inlet or if temperatures rise above freezing.

As for additives, I add additives to every tank of fuel I put thru my powerstroke Super Duty, beginning when temps dip to freezing and continue until Spring when we don't have those temps anymore. I also put additive in my tractors and road grader. I use Power Service. I buy it for $13 per gallon and a gallon will treat 250 gallons of fuel. My last fuel issue was in 1992 when I filled the road grader at a service station and they told me it was winterized fuel. It gelled. When I complained they said it was winterized to +20 degrees F. Last time I shadowed their door.

My fuel supplier, MFA Oil Company, says to not use Howes. They said it has minimal effect on their fuel. They recommend Power Service. They also recommend 911 if trying to get an engine running that's full of gelled fuel. Howes or Power Service need to be added before the problem, not after.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Sounds like my experience. Sort of. If you have cleaned everything out, replaced filters and it's just gelled, you are lucky. Add something like lucas extreme cold additive. But you have to have that mixed in throughout the whole fuel system, so best to put it in when it's warmer out and run the machine a while. Then when it gets cold, the stuff is protecting your whole system.

I found it's worse when your equipment quits in the cold, you look in your tank, and the fuel looks fine! Then I found the problem is almost always in your filter. Love that heated filter. Gots to get me one of those!

 

[smfcpacfp]

The solution is simple - use #1 Diesel. It's gel point is -40 F or C. You don't need heated filters, or heaters in your fuel tank and all of the wacky additives. I can't understand why people go through all of the wacky solutions they do, like the ones above, when there is a very simple. I guess most people can't get enough pain. Have you never heard of #1 diesel? If it is colder than -40 - stay inside. #1 diesel have very little lubricating qualities, so a lubricating additive would be helpful.


Save your summer diesel blend for summer.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

The solution is simple - use #1 Diesel. It's gel point is -40 F or C. You don't need heated filters, or heaters in your fuel tank and all of the wacky additives. I can't understand why people go through all of the wacky solutions they do, like the ones above, when there is a very simple. I guess most people can't get enough pain. Have you never heard of #1 diesel? If it is colder than -40 - stay inside. #1 diesel have very little lubricating qualities, so a lubricating additive would be helpful.


Save your summer diesel blend for summer.

If it is so simple then where do I get #1 fuel at?

David