Chryslers grandson wants to save the brand

[WinterDeere]

I, as a European, didnt grow up with cross plane V8 engines. I find them noisy, vibratory and not very refined...

Of course that's true... but that's half the appeal! Who wants "refined" in a muscle car? That said, my modern 6.4L is a heck of a lot more refined than any of my older big block engines.

There's an American prop comic from the 1970's, who used to show a picture of the Saturn V rocket about 150 feet off the ground, with flames extending out 600 feet in all directions from the launch pad. His comment was, "anything that uses that much fuel and only goes that far, must be made in America!"

 

[Renze]

Of course that's true... but that's half the appeal! Who wants "refined" in a muscle car? That said, my modern 6.4L is a heck of a lot more refined than any of my older big block engines.

Well, me... Six inline, now thàts fine!

There's an American prop comic from the 1970's, who used to show a picture of the Saturn V rocket about 150 feet off the ground, with flames extending out 600 feet in all directions from the launch pad. His comment was, "anything that uses that much fuel and only goes that far, must be made in America!"

But engineered by **** prisoners of war. The all American Explorer rocket couldnt deliver, so the army finally agreed to have the German team that pioneered ICBMs for **** Germany, to have a go at it with the Apollo program, even though they rather not have the **** team make history

 

[WinterDeere]

But engineered by **** prisoners of war. The all American Explorer rocket couldnt deliver, so the army finally agreed to have the German team that pioneered ICBMs for **** Germany, to have a go at it with the Apollo program, even though they rather not have the **** team make history

Yes, German engineers gave an enormous boost (pun?) to our rocketry program in the 1940's, their contribution cannot be over-estimated. These were indeed scientists previously held captive by the ****'s, and who escaped thanks to intervention from American soldiers, facilitated by the brother of Wernher von Braun. I suspect we all know that story.

America is a land of immigrants, we would not be where we are today without the contribution of countless such examples. It's one reason I always have to question the inclination of some to resist all immigration, pretending as if those of us already here have something to hold over the newest arrivals. Your children and grandchildren may have some ingenious immigrant to thank for their future prosperity.

As to "rather not have the **** team make history", I think your viewpoint as an outsider is just wrong, there. Yes, there was apprehension over how Wernher von Braun would be publicly accepted as a figure-head of the Apollo program, justifiably so. But as you probably already know, von Braun was never active in politics, he was no more a subscriber to **** philosophy than any other American. He was more their prisoner, than a believer in their ideology. The only concerns that NASA management ever had regarding his involvement in Apollo was about optics, how it might appear to an ignorant public, nothing more.

 

[paulsharvey]

Nobody in Europe is either: the Doblo van it is based on, is cheaper and much more practical as a pickup vehicle for a warehouse clerk of some factory. (Workers that go to the jobsite with a bunch of tools and sometimes spareparts, need a bigger engine for the highway and more load capacity anyways)

Isnt this a Brazilian model ?

Made in Brazil, apparently popular there, and available in USoM.

 

[Renze]

These were indeed scientists previously held captive by the ****'s, and who escaped thanks to intervention from American soldiers, facilitated by the brother of Wernher von Braun. I suspect we all know that story.

Held captive by the Nazis ? Who told you that, the fairy fee ? Or is this history written by victors ?

Von Braun was a member of the **** party, not because he believed in those ideas, but to advance his own career. He has seen with his own eyes in wat conditions the REAL prisoners of war had to build the rockets he designed, and how many died. He knew and didnt object. That was why he was a controversial figure for the US senate.

Von Braun surrendered to the US army because he thought with the USA he had the best odds to continue working on his lifelong dream of manned space flight.
When he and his 127 head strong team arrived in the USA, they were brought to Fort Bliss and guarded with arms; Because the war was over, they called themsel "Prisoners of Peace" It was not untill 1955 that he was granted American citizenship.

When the Russians launched Sputnik and succeeded, the US navy got a shot at launching a rocket but it blew up. Only then, President Eisenhower turned NACA into NASA, gave it authority over the ICBM program and Von Braun and his team of 127 German PoWs got a chance. Before that, the US Senate and army objected to Von Braun and their team because their war past was unclear. They were never investigated because the authorities feared that the team would no longer cooperate and share their knowledge if an investigation was started.

If you really want some interesting facts from all sides, the four part BBC documentary "Space race" is on Youtube.
On the Soviet side, Sergey Korolev endured some hardships too, Stalin sent him to the Gulag during the Great Purge, but when his rival who ratted him out couldnt get it done, they brought him back from the Gulag and he became program leader. He had life long health issues from his hard time in the Gulag.

 

[WinterDeere]

Seen it. And you're right, "captive" does imply too much. But the point is he was not a subscriber to **** belief. He wanted to play with rockets, above all else, and apparently decided at some point that working under them was his best option for continuing that work at that time.

 

[ning]

Seen it. And you're right, "captive" does imply too much. But the point is he was not a subscriber to **** belief. He wanted to play with rockets, above all else, and apparently decided at some point that working under them was his best option for continuing that work at that time.

And, decided that working with rockets was more important than making a stand not to use slave labor.
Our country has put aside scruples many times to get where we're at.
The fact that we got "the best Germans" and the Soviets had at least as good of rockets does make one wonder just how important he was to our effort.

 

[Renze]

He wanted to play with rockets, above all else, and apparently decided at some point that working under them was his best option for continuing that work at that time.

Exactly.

He allegedly said in a college he gave in the 60s "the V2 rocket worked perfectly, except it landed on the wrong planet"

What his rockets were used for, or how many PoWs were starved making them, he chose to ignore. He even wore uniforms to please his funders.

 

[Renze]

The fact that we got "the best Germans" and the Soviets had at least as good of rockets does make one wonder just how important he was to our effort.

Well, the USA did not keep up with the Soviets untill they allowed the German team to take control of the program. It was also because they had some catching up to do, because the USA saw no practical need to explore space, while the Soviets saw it as propaganda at all cost (after they occupied half of Europe with USA Lend-lease Studebaker trucks) Thats why Kennedy said in 1961 that the USA would put a man on the moon, not because its easy but because its hard.

And the Soviets had to reverse-engineer the remainders of German V-2 rockets and German engineers that Operation Paperclip couldnt salvage from the parts of territory conquered by the Allies but appointed as Russian sector as agreed in the Potsdam conference.

The (lower level) German rocket engineers that were captured by the Red Army were allowed to return to East Germany in around 1953.

 

[Renze]

Our country has put aside scruples many times to get where we're at.

Lets be honest, ALL of the allied forces hurried to get hold of records of Doctor Josef Mengeles medical experiments on Jewish prisoners. For example, he induced hypothermia to see at which temperature which organs shut down. Or removed organs and wrote in detail which symptoms developed over time, untill death. Organ transplants, everything. Experiments that are downright torture.

But our modern medicine saves lives with the knowledge gained through these medical experiments on Jews.