CK20 and backhoe options

IslandTractor · May 21, 2006

Bob, I understand your point about CUTs and backhoes. Fair enough to point out that one should carefully consider the pros and cons of renting an excavator instead. For my situation, being on an island, it would cost me several times what it end up costing you to rent and transport an excavator. On top of that I couldn't work on weekends (ferry won't take trailers on weekends) so I'd need to rent longer and take off from work to transport the thing. Probably would end up costing well over a thousand bucks total everytime I rented it for a few days. I understand that is a pretty unique situation but I imagine there are others who use their tractors at remote locations where rental is not such a great option.

Another reason to own is if you are doing incremental clearing of land in which you creat stumps as you clear. Nice option to clear the stumps as you go rather than save them all for the excavator rental weekend.

Still, I agree with your basic point that one should carefully consider the alternatives before purchasing a BH for a CUT. Just be careful to identify the total costs of episodic rental.

IslandTractor · May 21, 2006

Bob, I understand your point about CUTs and backhoes. Fair enough to point out that one should carefully consider the pros and cons of renting an excavator instead. For my situation, being on an island, it would cost me several times what it end up costing you to rent and transport an excavator. On top of that I couldn't work on weekends (ferry won't take trailers on weekends) so I'd need to rent longer and take off from work to transport the thing. Probably would end up costing well over a thousand bucks total everytime I rented it for a few days. I understand that is a pretty unique situation but I imagine there are others who use their tractors at remote locations where rental is not such a great option.

Another reason to own is if you are doing incremental clearing of land in which you creat stumps as you clear. Nice option to clear the stumps as you go rather than save them all for the excavator rental weekend.

Still, I agree with your basic point that one should carefully consider the alternatives before purchasing a BH for a CUT. Just be careful to identify the total costs of episodic rental.

chelydra · May 24, 2006

( ... while you may not value your time as much as I value mine, but as much as I enjoy my "seat time" what I don't enjoy is spending hours on a task that can be far more easily accomplished when I use the right tool for the job.
... popping out 10" stumps. Neither of those tasks are well suited to a small tractor backhoe.

... I think you get my point. You hire yourself out for jobs, you probably can easily justify a small backhoe because you probably face more different jobs than most of us. )

Bob's economic analysis is compelling. Must say I waffled for a couple of years over buying a CK20HST vs. occasionally renting a Bobcat. (And I must say, mucking about with a tracked mini-monster like a T180 is about the most fun I've had without laughing or disrobing.)

What swayed me was knowing that having the tractor sitting there meant I'd use it. As I tell people, I'm worn out and sore (in a good way) even more often since adding diesel power, since I bite off much bigger jobs now, always with a sweat-and-elbow-grease element.

The BH was a tough call. I really wanted a Bobcat with occasional excavator rental. But the tractor is much less destructive on the ground. And as I suspected, now that I can operate almost smoothly (120 hrs), the BH is a huge force multiplier in both breaking ground and dead-lift, in smoothing, and in cutting levels from sloped positions. And with a 2' bucket, it's helped enormously in relocating trees and shrubs. I find some of the comments here amusing: I thought I was doing a lousy job taking an average of 30 minutes to pull a 10" pine stump and thewn fill/smooth the hole. Maybe not so bad? Learning where to chomp through roots and how much to cut before lifting has been critical. In fact, my only complaint is the weird squealing the BH makes under heavy load ever since the first 50-hr lube.

I will probably keep this machine forever, at 100 hrs/year. It has all the power I need for lifting, loading and digging (with toothbar), and no room for a bigger machine anyway. So resale value sort of doesn't matter. But if I compare probable depreciation per hour and per year with the cost of rentals, I think I'm breaking even or better, even before factoring in at-hand convenience.

Just my experience-

Chelydra

chelydra · May 24, 2006

( ... while you may not value your time as much as I value mine, but as much as I enjoy my "seat time" what I don't enjoy is spending hours on a task that can be far more easily accomplished when I use the right tool for the job.
... popping out 10" stumps. Neither of those tasks are well suited to a small tractor backhoe.

... I think you get my point. You hire yourself out for jobs, you probably can easily justify a small backhoe because you probably face more different jobs than most of us. )

Bob's economic analysis is compelling. Must say I waffled for a couple of years over buying a CK20HST vs. occasionally renting a Bobcat. (And I must say, mucking about with a tracked mini-monster like a T180 is about the most fun I've had without laughing or disrobing.)

What swayed me was knowing that having the tractor sitting there meant I'd use it. As I tell people, I'm worn out and sore (in a good way) even more often since adding diesel power, since I bite off much bigger jobs now, always with a sweat-and-elbow-grease element.

The BH was a tough call. I really wanted a Bobcat with occasional excavator rental. But the tractor is much less destructive on the ground. And as I suspected, now that I can operate almost smoothly (120 hrs), the BH is a huge force multiplier in both breaking ground and dead-lift, in smoothing, and in cutting levels from sloped positions. And with a 2' bucket, it's helped enormously in relocating trees and shrubs. I find some of the comments here amusing: I thought I was doing a lousy job taking an average of 30 minutes to pull a 10" pine stump and thewn fill/smooth the hole. Maybe not so bad? Learning where to chomp through roots and how much to cut before lifting has been critical. In fact, my only complaint is the weird squealing the BH makes under heavy load ever since the first 50-hr lube.

I will probably keep this machine forever, at 100 hrs/year. It has all the power I need for lifting, loading and digging (with toothbar), and no room for a bigger machine anyway. So resale value sort of doesn't matter. But if I compare probable depreciation per hour and per year with the cost of rentals, I think I'm breaking even or better, even before factoring in at-hand convenience.

Just my experience-

Chelydra

CBB · May 24, 2006

( 

Lots of folks have backhoes, but on a tractor under 35 or 40hp, I honestly think they are basically a waste since they basically are inadequate little toys that take too long to accomplish tasks.
)

Bob,
I have the backhoe on my CK20 but I bought the tractor for the long haul so I am sure it will be put to use. I do agree with you that renting is a good thing sometimes. I rented a dozer last summer for 225 hours and besides having a ball, removed huge stumps, made roads and stuff. The finish and finess is now being down with the CK 20 and the backhoe is great.
But I also agree about some people and backhoes. My brother has a Kubota tractor, 35 HP with the BH and FEL. His BH is very seldom used and the control arms are very poorly built/designed and break so when you want to use, it is not working. His tractor has been a real lemon, too. Poor guy, trouble with charging, trouble with clutch, trouble with starting, trouble with electric...just trouble. Maybe the newer Kubota's are better but his has been do do from year one. But again, for him, the backhoe has been a waste and it might be for others too. So good point, think before you buy. I am glad I have mine and have dug a 300' trench already, did some small trees and that. Our old 23 hp Ford 1700 has always worked circles around the Kubota mostly because it "works". The Ford is retired but my bro refuses to admit his crappy machine and keeps trying to make it run right. He even has a trailer now so he can run it to the shop easier. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

CBB · May 24, 2006

( 

Lots of folks have backhoes, but on a tractor under 35 or 40hp, I honestly think they are basically a waste since they basically are inadequate little toys that take too long to accomplish tasks.
)

Bob,
I have the backhoe on my CK20 but I bought the tractor for the long haul so I am sure it will be put to use. I do agree with you that renting is a good thing sometimes. I rented a dozer last summer for 225 hours and besides having a ball, removed huge stumps, made roads and stuff. The finish and finess is now being down with the CK 20 and the backhoe is great.
But I also agree about some people and backhoes. My brother has a Kubota tractor, 35 HP with the BH and FEL. His BH is very seldom used and the control arms are very poorly built/designed and break so when you want to use, it is not working. His tractor has been a real lemon, too. Poor guy, trouble with charging, trouble with clutch, trouble with starting, trouble with electric...just trouble. Maybe the newer Kubota's are better but his has been do do from year one. But again, for him, the backhoe has been a waste and it might be for others too. So good point, think before you buy. I am glad I have mine and have dug a 300' trench already, did some small trees and that. Our old 23 hp Ford 1700 has always worked circles around the Kubota mostly because it "works". The Ford is retired but my bro refuses to admit his crappy machine and keeps trying to make it run right. He even has a trailer now so he can run it to the shop easier. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif