CK20, CK25 or CK30???

   / CK20, CK25 or CK30??? #11  
<font color="blue"> I am concerned about the weight to horsepower ratio on this tractor when using an FEL </font>

IMO, The function of the FEL is based more on the performance of the hydraulics than the horsepower. In the case of the CK25 and CK30 both tractors have the same size hydraulic cylinders and same size hydraulic pump.

<font color="blue"> I also want to use the tractor around the barn after we get some horses, so maneuverability is an important factor. </font>

CK25/30 is quite abit longer than the CK20. If your talking inside a barn I would be looking closely at measurements.

Don
 
   / CK20, CK25 or CK30??? #12  
No I have not used a CK25, never said I did. In fact said I didn't. I do, on a regular basis use a 24hp machine and a 30hp machine and there are some pretty dramatic differences between what the two can do with implements. While my 24hp has a loader that is equal/superior to the 30ph tractor, that is where the equality ends.

In reply to another post about my critism of the CK25 versus the CK30 and how it relates to "mowing centered" activity, I would say absolutely not. The CK25 is going to be using smaller implements all the way around. Smaller box blades, smaller snow blowers, smaller tillers, etc. Seems to me a tractor that size is fairly dramatically hampered by its size/hp ratio. I've said that before and will again. But the 25 will be limited to a tiller that is probably 8 to 12" narrower than the 30, and ditto with the mower deck, and ditto with the box blade. Simply put, the PTO hp is NOT available to run larger PTO implements, and hp put to the ground is not there to pull a box blade, cultivator, rear blade, etc as large as the 30 will pull.

Regarding using the tractor INSIDE a barn, that would lean me to the CK20, or more likely to a completely different brand. INSIDE a barn I want small size and tighter turning radious, the CK20 has that. But I'd still want the power of at least the CK25 for all the times when the tractor is OUTSIDE the barn running implements. So for that application I would look at the competition and pick a 24/25hp small frame tractor or I would look at the Power Trac PT425, which may be the best choice of all as long as no plowing or similar "true" agricultural use was intended. The PT425 would easily be superior inside any building, is superior with a front end loader even with lower specs because of its manuverability, it is clearly vastly superior with a post hole digger, and it will still mow, brush cut, etc.

I like the Kioti machines and have defended them to a much greater extent than many others (especially non-Kioti owners); however I point out some potential shortcomings in an objective way and expose some warts. I also expose warts on my own brands of equipment (I currently have 4 colors, and I restore a 5th color as a hobby), and I expose warts on other brands I don't own. Personally I think it is CONSTRUCTIVE to hear about the good and the bad. Listening to the preacher preach to the chior is fine sometimes, but objectivity in all the forums is better. No machine is perfect for every job and every task. The Kioti forum, in particular, seems to have a lot of advocates that, if crossed, get a little bent out of shape when the brand is questioned, even if just a little bit questioned. I personally will continue to visit and post my opinions, and probably get jumped on for it. So be it. That said, I still like the CK20 and the CK30 but feel the CK25 is best left on the dealers lot, along with the Edsel and more recently the Oldsmobile.

Somebody has to keep the advocates from getting to confident. I'm happy to do it. And I do it to Kubota's too. And oh yea, I have one of those. And I've exposed a problem or two with my NH. So far the only perfect tractor I've owned has been my first antique. . . but that was for purely sentimental reasons, not for its abilities.
 
   / CK20, CK25 or CK30??? #13  
I didn't jump on you Bob, I was polite and respectful - I just disagree with you.

I agree that driving the PTO is where you need the most hp, and usually that's with a mower. Could apply to a tiller or snow blower as well, but I'm not convinced the CK25 doesn't have the hp for it.

I still think that in dragging a box blade you will run out of traction long before you run out of hp. If I snag a big root with the BB, my wheels spin. The engine is not working that hard, I just don't have enough traction. If I had a 25hp engine, I don't think the stiation would be any different.

And you will find I've made this same argument inrealtion to Kubota L's vs. Kubota B's.
 
   / CK20, CK25 or CK30??? #14  
Does it strike anyone as odd that the original poster chose the tractor BRAND even before considering the tractor itself? The orignal poster picked 3 similar LOOKING machines of different sizes and with different capabilities all from one brand, but is not even sure if any of the 3 tractors are actually suitable for the TASKS he wants to get done.

Personally it strikes me as a backwards approach. I'd suggest doing it this way: First, lay out the tasks and rank them by importance, then find all the machines that will complete those tasks. Then eliminate machines based on their weaknessess in the most important areas first. Then eliminate machines that remain based on cost, warrenty, parts availability, dealer support, etc (and some of those are subjective depending your individual needs). Then pick from the tractors that remain.

Perhaps, the fact that I get into trouble (particularly with Don /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) is that I take a different approach to tractors than some other people. But I have yet to find a tractor that will walk on water, so I guess until that date I will be a devil's advocate for some things and an advocate for others, depending on your point of view. And if that makes me either a so-called expert, or a blow-hard, then either is fine with me too.
 
   / CK20, CK25 or CK30??? #15  
Bob, I figured you'd come back and post and you did......which is a good thing.

<font color="blue"> No machine is perfect for every job and every task. </font>

And that is the point exactly. Hence the CK25 and the CK30. So to do a wholesale job and say <font color="blue"> .....but feel the CK25 is best left on the dealers lot... </font> is really unfair and an injustice to the CK25. You and I can armchair quarterback all day long however, you or I do not have a direct line to the engineers at Kioti who designed this tractor.

<font color="blue">however I point out some potential shortcomings in an objective way and expose some warts</font>

Sometimes more subjective......or....at least it comes across that way. I think we need to remember to emphasize the: in my opinion, on paper, from my experience, etc., etc. Because at times it comes across as pretty much matter of fact...when it's not fact but one own's opinion.

<font color="blue"> Personally I think it is CONSTRUCTIVE to hear about the good and the bad. </font>
I really don't think that is the issue here.

<font color="blue"> Somebody has to keep the advocates from getting to confident. </font>
That goes both ways. Balance.

<font color="blue">The Kioti forum, in particular, seems to have a lot of advocates that, if crossed, get a little bent out of shape when the brand is questioned, even if just a little bit questioned. </font>

I don't think "Brand" is the issue, rather the accuracy of the information presented. I can remember, some time ago, you were pretty <font color="blue"> BLUE </font>blooded and would defend /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif at all costs. You have expanded your horizons. I don't think the defense mechanisms in the Kioti forum are near as prominent as they once were, when there was somewhat of a closed mind-set about Kioti. With the present line-up Kioti has rolled out, Kioti products can pretty much stand on their own.

There is a CK25 testimonial on the Kioti website regarding the CK25. It reads in part... <font color="blue"> "The CK25HST is a powerful machine and the quality of workmanship in these tractors is superb......I have already accomplished things with this machine that I have wanted to do for over 10 years"... </font>

You and I can debate all week long but there is nothing like actual owner reports.

Don
 
   / CK20, CK25 or CK30??? #16  
I know I am slightly off subject , but I read somewhere in this fourm that the CK 25 and 30 was not equipped with a quick attach loader. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif ~ Just thought I'd let everyone know it certainly is! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
On another note, a good way to compare quality of tractors is to look in the owning/operating forums. One thing I took note of it there aren't a million questions on how to <font color="blue"> </font> repair the Kioti's and rewards for someone being able to tell where a bolt fell out of. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
   / CK20, CK25 or CK30??? #17  
<font color="blue"> that the CK 25 and 30 was not equipped with a quick attach loader. </font>

Might have been a quick attach 'bucket'.....?

Don
 
   / CK20, CK25 or CK30??? #18  
<font color="green"> I don't think "Brand" is the issue, rather the accuracy of the information presented. I can remember, some time ago, you were pretty BLUE blooded and would defend at all costs. You have expanded your horizons. I don't think the defense mechinisms in the Kioti forum are near as prominent as they once were, when there was somewhat of a closed mind-set about Kioti. With the present line-up kioti has rolled out. Kioti products can pretty much stand on their own.

</font>


Yup, and then Kioti came out with the excellent CK30. And I have said it is excellent. You and I debated exactly how excellent and we both have a little disagreement on perhaps exactly which machines it is comparable too, but we both agreed it is an excellent machine. And I like the CK20 as well. And to be fair and honest, my BLUE blood is related to the loader more than the tractor, and I will still defend the NH loaders as the best overall loaders, and I have also been very-very complimentary of the CK class loaders, and I have also panned the curved arm 400x loaders from JD. And if we go back to the original poster's question, he asked about 3 machines, all different, and I suppored one (CK30) and modestly supported another (CK20) as probably good for his needs, but possibly lacking.

Funny how one negative opinion illicits so much type when two positive opinions get past over. Not to say that some of the early posts didn't provide parallel positive opinions on the CK30, they did, but much more has been made of the CK25 comments. Hey, it is a decent machine, but for the price, the CK30 is a heap load better, given the price difference, the size, and the lack of comparitive value, I still believe the CK25 to be an Edsel.
 
   / CK20, CK25 or CK30??? #19  
Nope, the new KL130 loader is quick attach, Has curved arms too! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / CK20, CK25 or CK30??? #20  
The 130 loader is an excellent loader in specs and design, but I don't recall ever seeing that it was NOT a quick attach.
 

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