I have a failing Eljen. Presby's EnviroSeptic is being recommended. Residential 4 person household. Saw in the Concord newspaper that Presby had a person from the NH DES in their pocket (State employee told to end trips with company | Concord Monitor) so will the Presby's turn out to be junk just like the Eljen's have??? I don't know what to believe. Eljen is still claiming they're sooo good - almost all have been replaced in my neighbordhood. How can I trust that Presby's are any better?
CK20 does super .. crappy job
- Thread starter bearhawk
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I have a failing Eljen. Presby's EnviroSeptic is being recommended. Residential 4 person household. Saw in the Concord newspaper that Presby had a person from the NH DES in their pocket (State employee told to end trips with company | Concord Monitor) so will the Presby's turn out to be junk just like the Eljen's have??? I don't know what to believe. Eljen is still claiming they're sooo good - almost all have been replaced in my neighbordhood. How can I trust that Presby's are any better?
tulenutn2o
Platinum Member
Probably cause some enviro yuppy special interest group isn't getting a kick back. Outhouse and lime is as simple as u can get. Try getting them to let you do that. Big corps. pollute and we pay for it.
Dmace
Elite Member
7 years of designing and installing Enviro-septic systems and never has one failed. I even designed one for a 250 room hotel 5 years ago that is working like new. You can trust Presby's because they have a great track record, just ask any designer/installer. Any of them will tell you of failures for Eljen's too. I only recommend Eljen's for under driveways because they can be installed with only 12" of cover but you have to over-design them for them to last and they should be vented even if not a pump system.
The reason stone and pipe systems are not used as much is because they are not as clean, need larger surface areas, and wider buffers from nature wetlands (hence "not as clean"). Believe what you want with your "conspiracy theory" but stone and pipe systems DO NOT kill the bacteria in septic systems, they only filter it through sand and leave it in the ground.
tulenutn2o
Platinum Member
7 years of designing and installing Enviro-septic systems and never has one failed. I even designed one for a 250 room hotel 5 years ago that is working like new. You can trust Presby's because they have a great track record, just ask any designer/installer. Any of them will tell you of failures for Eljen's too. I only recommend Eljen's for under driveways because they can be installed with only 12" of cover but you have to over-design them for them to last and they should be vented even if not a pump system.
The reason stone and pipe systems are not used as much is because they are not as clean, need larger surface areas, and wider buffers from nature wetlands (hence "not as clean"). Believe what you want with your "conspiracy theory" but stone and pipe systems DO NOT kill the bacteria in septic systems, they only filter it through sand and leave it in the ground.
Last, I knew, the earth was gods greatest filter. Soil is loaded with all kinds of bacteria, we all know that. While not necessarily a conspiracy nut, I am overly tired of constant regulation by government bodies that couldn't find their hindsides with both hands, yet they "know" what's best for us all. It is about money. Corporations are "permitted" to pollute. If they pollute more, they pay more in permitting. What is your argument against the tried and true outhouse? I also suppose you have never crapped in the forest.
tulenutn2o
Platinum Member
Better go back to biology 101. Many, many different strains of e-coli. Many many pathogens yet undiscovered deep in the rainforests yet today. My point simply is this: could we be making things worse by concentrating our poop in these systems? Heck 20 years ago when I was in venice, you still could see "logs" floating in the canals. It may not be so much today, but didn't seem to be a major concern at the time. In case no one has figured it out yet; anything our buearocrats in washington do is a waste of time and doesn't address any real problem. They regulate private sewage systems when majority of problems are result from farm/industrial run-off. Municipalities pump sewage into our rivers and streams on a daily basis, albeit more concentrated than any household upstream on an old septic system could ever do. I am not pushing one system over the other, but they need to quit changing rules and quit regulating us to death. We use bio chamber systems here, among others. Still like the ole outhouse.
jake98
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Amazing, the thread takes 2 1/2 years off and comes back with a pulse.
Dmace: You have 7 years of good experience with the Presby's and no failures. That's good news.
Another poster had said to bearhawk that he had not seen Presby's fail either and bearhawk replied with this: "Funny, I have had two separate people in the septic business say that I was lucky to get it to last the 9 years it did. They were replacing many of these in the 5th or 6th year."
That makes me nervous that bearhawk was told by other septic people that Presby's had failed them.
I wonder what type of system bearhawk replaced his old Presby with - was it another Presby - do you know?
I want to hear more real-life installs of Presby's in New England that have been working for years before I replace my dying Eljen system.
Another poster had said to bearhawk that he had not seen Presby's fail either and bearhawk replied with this: "Funny, I have had two separate people in the septic business say that I was lucky to get it to last the 9 years it did. They were replacing many of these in the 5th or 6th year."
That makes me nervous that bearhawk was told by other septic people that Presby's had failed them.
I wonder what type of system bearhawk replaced his old Presby with - was it another Presby - do you know?
I want to hear more real-life installs of Presby's in New England that have been working for years before I replace my dying Eljen system.
bearhawk: How's that new system working for you? I have an Elgen system - no vent, no filter, 4-person household. Nothing but t.p. and liquid Tide and dishwasher gel does into it - - - no Clorox, no water softener, occasional ammonia from cleaning. The tank pumping guy said it's too full - sludge around the lid of the tank. So - since I know many, many other households in my neighborhood with Elgin's have had to replace, I know my turn will come - if it's not here already.
What system did you replace yours with - another Presby? That's what's being recommended to me. But I don't know who to believe so I'm trying to get testimonials - either way - about Presby's. I know they had the NH state folks in their back pocket for a while per the Concord newspaper so that doesn't make me trust them very much either.
What system did you replace yours with - another Presby? That's what's being recommended to me. But I don't know who to believe so I'm trying to get testimonials - either way - about Presby's. I know they had the NH state folks in their back pocket for a while per the Concord newspaper so that doesn't make me trust them very much either.
Coyote machine
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In Vermont the state required me to install a mound system when my prior septic failed- one which had been in existence since around 1974. Originally it was like the system touted by L.Brown- no real leach field per se and just a 1000gallon tank 10' off the house's DWV line. It got everything we could throw at it inc. dishwasher, washer, chemicals, etc. We spared it no pain. A number of years ago when effluent started showing up on the edge of the front lawn we investigated the leach field and found none. We installed one, as best we could, because there is so much water at or very close to ground level it's RIDICULOUS! It too failed within a year or two because even though we installed a curtain drain to keep ground water from saturating the field it was to no avail.
A couple of years ago we started a MASSIVE renovation/ addition + barn with it's own system. That is just the beginning of the NIGHTMARE of new septic systems in VT. My GC hired a 'site tech' who THEORETICALLY had all necessary credentials to tell us what we had to do to meet the state's requirements.
He had me dig a few shallow test pits to see soil composition and water table depth and rendered an opinion that I would HAVE to go to a mound system because of the soil and water issues. We dug another test hole in the field about 25 yards from my house downhill from the existing septic tank. This all took place in the Spring, way before we would need to get the system up to running with state approval, etc.
After much inattention and multiple screw-ups the system was installed with a pump tank, alarm, vent, filters on both the original septic tank, and the new tank specked for the barn.
There was little time to get grass growing on the mound which was and is considered to be a 'performance based mound system' with very specific specks as to what needs to go where as far as sand, fill, etc. The system has laterals, which have spray nozzles which are at near the top of the system to allow effluent to spray up into the upper layers and then be absorbed on the way down through the mound toward grade w/OUT contaminating surrounding ground water.
It required testing my well to see if the state thought I might need to drill another well to supply enough water to the new barn with apartment. The state uses # of bedrooms to calculate the maximum amount of water needed for everything to run at once and then throws in some fudge factor and the existing well must meet this calculated load or else. The well passed.
The costs were/ are ASTRONOMICAL! between the excavator, 'site tech', (read unqualified state sanctioned flunky), NOT having adequate qualifications to actually do the engineering necessary for the whole project, professional engineer, with real credentials, and electrician, etc., etc.
It was somewhere in the neighborhood of $30, 000 !!
Then, first winter, X-mas week two years ago, it froze solid and set off the alarm!!!
Excavator was there to address it the same day. He dug a hole by the feed pipe and drilled a 1/4" hole at the outer edge of the elbow feeding the mound's
laterals.
He then took 'blankets' designed to be used when pouring/curing concrete in cold weather and spread then over the entire mound, covered it all with hay and fired up a rented oil fired boiler to run hot water through the hoses under the blanket at $400 of oil/day for nearly a week. At an overall additional cost of $7000 I had to pay we now had a mound system the state refused to approve until it passes THREE YEARS of Spring season verification by the professional engineer!!! We are now at two of the three years to get a state permit which I can then file with the town and on my deed to the property.
Oh, did I mention that I had to have the excavator REMOVE the hole and I came up with a solution to the effluent not being able to run out of the laterals once the pump shuts off in cold weather? I had the excavator install a third empty septic tank and move the pump station, and other things that were done wrong by the site tech who 'designed' the flawed system, because I still have to pass with the state and they would not allow the 1/4" hole near grade- so I had to devise a way to cover my own butt since neither the site tech, excavator or state was going to pay to thaw out the mound a second time around, and neither was I going to pay for any more screw ups. And the state sent me a letter letting the site tech know he was NOT qualified to sign off on the system in the first place.
Moral of story- WATCH OUT! Check EVERYONE"S qualifications and make sure no-one like a site tech has not disclosed that the job they are doing for you is actually their LAST and they are in process of selling/closing their business! And find out exactly what the state requires and do your best to understand what your obligations are and theirs.
One last note: the site tech only received some of what he billed me for and he was told unless he could get me a state permit he would NOT be paid the balance for his work. He was in turn going to use part of what I was supposed to pay him to pay the professional engineer he had to bring in to get the site work done and approved by the state - eventually. I told him, the pro engineer when I am fully permitted after the three year period I will directly pay his fee. The excavator did a lot of work- labor wise which he did not charge me for around X-mas time the first year.
There is clearly a need to keep our groundwater clean as possible but I am testimony as to the errors the states make in allowing unqualified people to pose as qualified enough to deal with these massively complicated systems. The state(s) know mound systems are not working properly but they keep requiring average Joe citizen to install and then deal with the nightmares of their yet unproven design parameters. One is literally held hostage on one's own land by the state of decay known as local state government. But don't get me started on the politics of what states are now willing to do to get revenue any way they can to burn like brush at all of our expense!!!
END TRANS!
Sorry for the long rant- but I thought my nightmare might be useful to others.:thumbsup:
CM OUT!
A couple of years ago we started a MASSIVE renovation/ addition + barn with it's own system. That is just the beginning of the NIGHTMARE of new septic systems in VT. My GC hired a 'site tech' who THEORETICALLY had all necessary credentials to tell us what we had to do to meet the state's requirements.
He had me dig a few shallow test pits to see soil composition and water table depth and rendered an opinion that I would HAVE to go to a mound system because of the soil and water issues. We dug another test hole in the field about 25 yards from my house downhill from the existing septic tank. This all took place in the Spring, way before we would need to get the system up to running with state approval, etc.
After much inattention and multiple screw-ups the system was installed with a pump tank, alarm, vent, filters on both the original septic tank, and the new tank specked for the barn.
There was little time to get grass growing on the mound which was and is considered to be a 'performance based mound system' with very specific specks as to what needs to go where as far as sand, fill, etc. The system has laterals, which have spray nozzles which are at near the top of the system to allow effluent to spray up into the upper layers and then be absorbed on the way down through the mound toward grade w/OUT contaminating surrounding ground water.
It required testing my well to see if the state thought I might need to drill another well to supply enough water to the new barn with apartment. The state uses # of bedrooms to calculate the maximum amount of water needed for everything to run at once and then throws in some fudge factor and the existing well must meet this calculated load or else. The well passed.
The costs were/ are ASTRONOMICAL! between the excavator, 'site tech', (read unqualified state sanctioned flunky), NOT having adequate qualifications to actually do the engineering necessary for the whole project, professional engineer, with real credentials, and electrician, etc., etc.
It was somewhere in the neighborhood of $30, 000 !!
Then, first winter, X-mas week two years ago, it froze solid and set off the alarm!!!
Excavator was there to address it the same day. He dug a hole by the feed pipe and drilled a 1/4" hole at the outer edge of the elbow feeding the mound's
laterals.
He then took 'blankets' designed to be used when pouring/curing concrete in cold weather and spread then over the entire mound, covered it all with hay and fired up a rented oil fired boiler to run hot water through the hoses under the blanket at $400 of oil/day for nearly a week. At an overall additional cost of $7000 I had to pay we now had a mound system the state refused to approve until it passes THREE YEARS of Spring season verification by the professional engineer!!! We are now at two of the three years to get a state permit which I can then file with the town and on my deed to the property.
Oh, did I mention that I had to have the excavator REMOVE the hole and I came up with a solution to the effluent not being able to run out of the laterals once the pump shuts off in cold weather? I had the excavator install a third empty septic tank and move the pump station, and other things that were done wrong by the site tech who 'designed' the flawed system, because I still have to pass with the state and they would not allow the 1/4" hole near grade- so I had to devise a way to cover my own butt since neither the site tech, excavator or state was going to pay to thaw out the mound a second time around, and neither was I going to pay for any more screw ups. And the state sent me a letter letting the site tech know he was NOT qualified to sign off on the system in the first place.
Moral of story- WATCH OUT! Check EVERYONE"S qualifications and make sure no-one like a site tech has not disclosed that the job they are doing for you is actually their LAST and they are in process of selling/closing their business! And find out exactly what the state requires and do your best to understand what your obligations are and theirs.
One last note: the site tech only received some of what he billed me for and he was told unless he could get me a state permit he would NOT be paid the balance for his work. He was in turn going to use part of what I was supposed to pay him to pay the professional engineer he had to bring in to get the site work done and approved by the state - eventually. I told him, the pro engineer when I am fully permitted after the three year period I will directly pay his fee. The excavator did a lot of work- labor wise which he did not charge me for around X-mas time the first year.
There is clearly a need to keep our groundwater clean as possible but I am testimony as to the errors the states make in allowing unqualified people to pose as qualified enough to deal with these massively complicated systems. The state(s) know mound systems are not working properly but they keep requiring average Joe citizen to install and then deal with the nightmares of their yet unproven design parameters. One is literally held hostage on one's own land by the state of decay known as local state government. But don't get me started on the politics of what states are now willing to do to get revenue any way they can to burn like brush at all of our expense!!!
END TRANS!
Sorry for the long rant- but I thought my nightmare might be useful to others.
:thumbsup:CM OUT!
