CK20 HST tranny issues

[albmn10]

Hello Mathey, Im truley sorry to hear about your misfortunes. I dont think anyone from kioti tbn would disagree.. Your going to find what some call " Friday afternoon" tractors in any brand, regardless of color, and that doesnt change your situation any.. I think Kioti should step up here and do something more to help you out. Ive had a similar circumstance when buying a 7500 dollar outboard motor from Mercury, long story short after a indepentent test by a third party proved my motor was highly defective, and the Mercury motor corp was a joke to deal with,basically turning their backs on me and i had to involve the attorney general, and still was faced with long court battles over a joker for a regeional rep. I finally got help from a manager from who i had bought the motor from who said it just wasnt right what Mercury was doing to me... I still ended up with another Mercury motor, because thats all i could get in exchange, but i will never buy another, even though this motor has been flawless.. Kioti should do something, perhaps extend your orginal warranty ,3 yrs parts, 2yrs labor to restore your confidence.. Buts thats just my opinion... Ive worked my ck30 very hard , i never baby the tractor, but i dont abuse it either, its proven to be very strong and reliable so far, and my research before buying this tractor proved its reliabilty to be excellent as well.. But anyway, I do hope you get satisfaction... And i hope they (Kioti) does read this post... Good luck..

 

[mathey]

It's true that perhaps the dealer doing the repair took longer than they should have hour wise, but who am I to determine that? Was I supposed to go to them and say "well, so-and-so can do it in half the time"...I'm sure they would have pushed the parts out the back door and told me to come and pick up the pieces (it was already split by then). Without Kioti backing me up, I really don't have a leg to stand on regarding the hours it took to repair. Again, I'll say it...this was caused by a part failure, plain and simple, and Kioti should have covered it in full. I didn't say a word when I found a bolt stuck to my drain plug at the 50 hour service, but now I'm wondering if it contributed to it's demise after all.

At this point, some two months later without contact, I have no expectations that I will ever hear from Kioti, I'm sure they're trying hard to forget about me. I'm not one to create a fuss, choosing to go the patience route, but it didn't get me very far...maybe I should have gone down the other road...at least I would have vented to them and maybe felt a little better.

It's funny, I went out tonight to move some hay again...I was almost terrified to do anything for fear of breaking the stupid thing. I give up.

Incidentally, my tractor serial number is 13...guess I should have known...

 

[coasterez]

Mark,

It sucks, for sure. And it's true that you probably won't hear from Kioti. Their obligation is as stated in the warranty, and unless there is a pattern in these machines, they won't do anything. I've had similar experiences with Chrysler and Ford, as I'm sure others have had with different manufacturers.

Many manufacturers do publish (for dealers eyes only) standard durations for specific repairs. If it can be determined that the dealer exceeded these (assuming they exist), Kioti might be more receptive to helping you. However, if Kioti were to respond, another full length warranty is probably the best you could hope for (plus cost reimbursements). And if it does happen again after another 2.5 years, you'd just be in the same situation again. The real question is will it happen again. Hopefully, it's just bad luck and won't strike twice in the same tranny.

Tom

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I can shed some light on the cost of the repair. It very well maybe realistic that it took the guy a good 2 days to make that repair which would result in that much labor. Your going to have several hours of diagonistic time plus splitting the tractor for the tranny repair. I don't think it would be wrong to ask the dealer for a concession on that.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'll apologize now for this reply, since I know it won't be taken very well by most.)</font>
Mathey, I'm so sorry you've been put through the wringer. It is a real shame you had to have this experience. I think we can all agree that this particular part should not have had this problem so soon in the tractor's young life. I have almost 400 hours on mine now, without that problem, but who knows?

I have no problem with your post; it tells the true story of what happened. Kioti, of course, is responsible to provide what they said they would. What a shame the dealer couldn't have done more to take care of you rather than charging you full price for something he/she surelly understands almost had to be defective from the beginning.

I think Kioti, and most other brands, have a lot of issues with the way they respond to this type of problem. I find it the case in so many instances, with so many products. What a shame we all have to go through it in a so-called sophisticated industrial country that is now mostly non-industrial and non-service.

I hope you have no further problems. I can surely understand your timidness to operate as usual after this trouble.

John

 

[Egon]

Daryl:

Two months is much too long for anyone using a tractor to make a living.

On a working farm two months could mean the loss of an entire crop.

Egon

 

[depratt_equip]

Anything can happen to machinery in this man made machinery world. I don't feel any other tractor company would have handled it differently to be honest. Hate to hear you have changed your feeling toward Kioti, as they are a great tractor, and great company to deal for. You bill does sound a little large for a 4 hour flat-rate job, which is dealer caused not Kioti, and it should only take a guy 10 minutes to look up under the tractor though the inspection hole to see the coupler is stripped.. I’m still curious why it took 2 months….

I can understand you being upset... I probably would be to. But look at it from Kiotis side... where should they draw the line? If they do it for one guy are they obligated to do it for the rest now?? They honored the warranty that they sold you, plus some.....the dealer however wasn't as nice it sounds. Every part is defective at some time, yours failed way too early and unfortunately it didn't fail during the full warranty. What would a major car mfg do if you didn't drive your car much but the time warranty expired and you had a failure to a major drive component.... they would leave you with the bill.... guaranteed.... now maybe the dealer would help out some but not the Mfg...

On a side note: we have never seen this failure out of the many CK20's sold and the many hours we have on customers units. Maybe we will sooner or later..... I keep the coupler on hand just in case I have to split a tractor we replace it to be safe.....

I truly hope you regain your faith in Kioti and your love for the tractor.... And I hope no one takes offense to my post or takes it rudely as that is the last thing I want....

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue"> Every part is defective at some time </font>

Jon -

I largely agree with the basic idea of your post, that many parts eventually fail on any machine, and that all failures cannot be fixed out of warranty by the manufacturer at no cost to the customer.

I just want to draw a distinction between a part that fails through "normal" wear and tear ("old age"?) and one that fails because of a defect in design or workmanship.

If these couplers were failing at 5,000 hours, that's one thing. But from the sound of things (low hours, several reported cases), it seems likely that these failures are the result of a defect in design or workmanship.

It would have been very interesting to have seen some test results on the metallurgical properties of the old and new couplers, particularly hardness, together with some engineering analysis concerning the ability of the part to handle the stresses it is subjected to. Perhaps it was too hard, perhaps it was too soft, perhaps it just wasn't beefy enough. Either way, it seems to me that it didn't fail due to normal wear and tear.

Just as Avis tries harder because they aren't Number One, I think Kioti has missed a golden (and very visible) opportunity to go the extra mile to take care of this failure. A recall is likely not called for at this point, but stepping up to the plate and accepting responsibility for what truly seems to be a defect would have bought a lot of goodwill and confidence for the brand.

And I'm not saying any of this to "bash" Kiotis. I really like them a lot, from their good looks to their beefy construction. They just seem to be real workhorses, and I'd hate to see the brand suffer unnecessarily as it goes through some of the "growing pains" that so many manufacturers have experienced through the years. I think everyone on the planet realizes that nothing is perfect and mistakes are made; the "proof" is in how well we take responsibility for our imperfections.

John

 

[depratt_equip]

I guess the real thing that frustrates me is the repair bill he got from the dealer. If Kioti covered him $390 for "loss of use" then that should have been more than enough to cover the repair..... And this loss of use was probably meant to “cover” him (mathey) for the labor side of things but it sounds as if the dealer jacked up the labor time charged to the customer…. I don’t know all the details so I may be speaking out of turn and apologize if I am, but this is just how it comes off to me.

No doubt if he left my shop and Kioti covered him $390 for loss of use on this repair he would be walking away with no out of pocket expense……

 

[lcisled]

This case is really two issues:
1) The coupler could be a bad part on higher hour CK20HST tractors-jury is still out-even for KJ as the part could break at any time. Neither I or Mathey had any indication that it was wearing out. As I have said, I am now glad that I had mine go out under warranty. I do not have to think about it every time I use the tractor.
2) Dealer interaction with the customer will have a huge impact on the Kioti brand. James Little saved the day for my Kioti, if it were up to my local dealer, I would own another brand today. I believe Jon or Wallace would have handled it well. I believe Mathey's dealer could be part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Mathey, based on what I know, if I were you, I would move on like it never happened. I believe your problem with the coupler is solved, and the faster you put the tractor back in use, the faster your confidence will be restored.