CK25 Buyer needs assurance to pull the trigger

[1wheeler1]

Greetings everyone. I have been digesting as much information as I can from this site for the last few weeks to make my first tractor purchase which I think will be the CK25HST. I started out convinced that I was going to purchase a NH TC30 mostly for price until I actually really got to looking at the tractor and specs. When I realized the factory FEL capacity was less then 800lbs I stopped looking at it and even considered going to the TC24 which is smaller but had close to the same FEL capacity. To make a long story short I ran across the Kioti line on the Internet, found a dealer, and test drove a CK25 gear and was convinced I was going to get it. Then I started reading this forum and realized the HST was only $1000 more or in my case $25 a month and convinced myself to upgrade to the HST. I did also look at going to a CK30 but around here they are about $1900 more then a CK25 and the HST already put me a bit above what I planned on spending. I have 5-acres and will be doing mostly FEL work around the yard and run a brush mower in the pasture but thats about it. I usually get a mini excavator for any digging jobs. All that being said I have a few questions for all of you before I finalize the deal and pull the trigger.

1. Debating between the CK25 and 30 from what I can tell they will perform identically for FEL work and the only gain would be the PTO HP which I don't believe I really need. If I purchased anything large for the three point it would probably be a backhoe which would run off of the tractor pump versus the PTO. I have used the B21's with a lot of different implements and had no problems even though they really lack in PTO power.

2. I'm a little nervous regarding the Kioti FEL and the some of the problems I have read about in this forum with the stress cracks and welding repair. One dealer around here offers the CK25/30 with the SMC Servis loader. Should I be considering that as an option?

3. How many hours should one expect to get out of one of the Daedong engines and will it be easy to find someone to rebuild it if ever needed. I hope to have this tractor for a lifetime and can pass it down. (Currently I still have a 1941 TD6 Dozer that my Grampa owned. Starts on Gas and switches to Diesel and has never been rebuilt.) Do any of you have a Kioti with over 1000 hours?

4. Same question regarding the Daedong HST. Will it last as long as a shuttle shift if properly taken care of? Will it be easy to get rebuilt if ever needed?

Any input would be much appreciated before making this big of an investment into a new tractor. I have looked at the NH, JD, Kubota, Mahindra, and Branson's but I seem to like the Kioti the best for value.

Thanks,

1wheeler1

4. Reliability

 

[Highbeam]

Yay, Washington.

I am the guy with the loader cracks/repair. This is ongoing and I hope to have it resolved with a pretty result.

1) The CK25 will have plenty of hydro output to run a backhoe. The hoe manufacturers publish hydraulic flow requirements and seem to come in at around 6 gpm. The C Kmakes more than 10.

2) I had considered a woods loader instead of the Kioti. Despite my troubles, I still agree in principle that you should get a matched loader made by the tractor manufacturer. The aftermarket loader is not necessarily built within the capabilities of your tractor and may overload it and break something very important. Then the Kioti company will blame the loader and the loader company will blame Kioti. Your tractor will still be broke.

3) I'm at 167 but there are many more daedongs out there with more.

4) Mine works great. You don't see many HSTs at all that are 50 years old so we can't really say. The Kioti HST appears to be just as reliable as the other brands. Having HST is a must in my opinion.

I was in line for a Kubota and saved several thousand to get an "equivalent" Kioti. I understand that the price gap has narrowed but thus far I have not regretted the decision to go Kioti.

I had a 1974 IH dozer before this tractor. Not a gas/diesel but tracks are good too.

 

[coasterez]

Hi,
I would think that PTO horsepower would be important to for the bush hogging. Especially if it's a fair amount of land. You would want as big a bush hog as you can afford, and that your tractor can run. If this is important, then the CK30 would allow you to run a larger bush hog at a faster ground speed. Bush hogging is ok, even fun, for the first hour or two. After that, it's just hot, dusty, noisy and plain monotanous. So, ask yourself how much time you want to spend doing this chore.

Also, the HST robs a few extra horsepower from the PTO. I have a CK25 gear and a JD425 hydrodrive. My JD425 hydro is outstanding for finish mowing and snow removal. In such cases, the control provided by hydro can't be beat. However, for most other chores hydro drive doesn't do much for me. So, you have to ask yourself if you really need it, and at what cost both in terms of money and performance. That is why I bought the gear drive. I just couldn't justify the HST for what I am using the machine for. The shuttle shift works great and clutch disengagement capability of the live PTO (only available with gear drive) is an added safety measure. The HST's use an electric solenoid clutch to engage the PTO (I think). I've heard many stories of failed electric PTO clutches. None were Kiotis; just something to consider for longevity and cost of ownership.

However, I would say that if doing a lot of short back and forth loader work, the HST gives some convenience so that you don't have to take your hand off of the loader control. It is also great for tight spaces where you need fine control.

Just my 2 cents (probably worth less) is that your best options are: CK30HST or CK25 Gear. Perhaps someone who bush hogs with a CK25HST will chime in. How does it do with a 6' bush hog? No matter, the CK's are great machines and you'll be happy with whichever one you pick.


Tom

 

[KiotiJohn]

Welcome. In all fairness, it must be said that many Kioti loaders have been sold, and don't have the stress crack problem. There are a whole lot of loaders on the market, and we don't know what their histories are.

That said, there have only been a few reports on TBN about stress cracks. I've had my TLB CK20H since Jan. 04, 400 hours, and no stress cracks on the loader.

A Daedong engine is the last thing you will need to worry about. They have been making then since 1947 for one use or another, and for tractors since the 60s. I have seen one 3054 with an engine that had not been maintained at all and it was still trying to go. The dealer put in some oil and a few fix ups, and it ran like a top. The owner stated he had never changed the oil, just added to it. It had over 1000 hours on the meter, and the owners stated the hour meter had stopped working years before and didn't know how many hours it must have, but thousands more were probable.
In general, you should expect the engine to last a couple of generations at least under normal use, anywhere from 5-10,000 hours with proper maintenance.
My neighbor owns a hydraulic repair and noted that he knew the pump on my HST and that it was a "piece of cake" to repair if I ever had problems. So far, I haven't had any.
It appears that the HSTs either work and keep on going, or quite quickly you'll find a problem and get it switched out. There isn't a heck of a lot of difference between repair costs for shuttles and HSTs. Clutches and shuttle linkages are not inexpensive to repair, but if I had to repair any of them, I'd want them to be on Kioti because their parts prices tend to be much less compared to many brands. This has been noted many times on TBN.
The CK25 is all you really need if you don't want to step up. 5HP DOES make a difference, but probably not enough to worry about. I've used both machines, and they both perform very well.
Oh, by the way, it's generally less expensive to replace the engine with a new one than to rebuild according to a friend at Kioti who is an engineer in Korea. The new engines are less than all the parts plus labor.
Good luck in your search.
John

 

[Highbeam]

"The HST's use an electric solenoid clutch to engage the PTO (I think). I've heard many stories of failed electric PTO clutches."

The HST is equipped with a clutch and a "non-electric solenoid" PTO, I think it's called a live PTO. So you push in the clutch, move a lever to engage the PTO gear, release the clutch to begin PTO spin, and then drive in any direction and switch direction without clutching or disengaging the PTO or clutch. Fantastic for maneuvering the tractor while mowing.

 

[albmn10]

Hello 1 wheeler, I would suggest if you like the ck25 to go with the gear, if you like the hst go for the ck30... The extra hp does make a difference.. The price difference was about 1200 when i was looking a little over a year ago.. As far as the loader goes, the k130 offers an excellent working view, as far as capability id say its for light to medium duty.. I actually went with the woods loader on my ck30 ,its a heavy duty bucket and has condiderably more performance then the k130. Most people would be more then happy with the k130 though. Kioti allows both the 1009 and the 1012 woods loaders to be used on the ck30 according to my dealer. The ck30 is a great machine by the way.. Good luck

 

[coasterez]

So you still have a clutch pedal even with HST? If so, I stand corrected. I did not know that. Not sure how I could have missed that. I guess I just didn't look closely at the HST's. Just one more good thing about a Kioti.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So you still have a clutch pedal even with HST? If so, I stand corrected. I did not know that. Not sure how I could have missed that. I guess I just didn't look closely at the HST's. Just one more good thing about a Kioti. )</font>
Some brands with HST do not have a clutch, but all the Kioties do. I'm not sure one is better than the other, it's a subjective thing.

The clutch on the Kioti HSTs is used for changine range lever, engaging the PTO and also should be used when switching into 4 WD.
John

 

[Dargo]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Some brands with HST do not have a clutch, but all the Kioties do. I'm not sure one is better than the other, it's a subjective thing. )</font>

Without a clutch, wouldn't it be hard to feather the PTO such as you need to do with a PHD? I find a clutch with a hydro very functional for such things. Also, when using a rotary cutter, I like to spin up the blades rather slowly to prevent any shock to the driveline.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Also, when using a rotary cutter, I like to spin up the blades rather slowly to prevent any shock to the driveline. )</font>
I too start my cutter at slow idle and run it up after, but that could be done on the other types as well by simply engaging the PTO with the RPM at idle. I would think there is some "bang" in the engagement, but not enough to harm anything.

I'm sure others who use the clutchless HST could comment on that. The same would go with the PHD I would think. I don't use one, so I'm not sure how clutchless PTOs would affect it.
John