CK25 engine problem

[Jkrph]

I have a CK25 with 800 hours on the engine. I changed the oil, and when I removed the drain plug from the left side, 3 pieces of metal dropped out. Once I got them cleaned up I could see they were gear teeth that had broken off. The engine starts and runs perfectly. The teeth are very shiny, like they are chrome plated. Each one is about 1/2 inch long and 1/8 inch tall.

Can anyone point me to which gear these may be from so I have a place to start looking?

Thank you.

 

[xcgreene]

*Have a picture of the pieces?
*When was the last oil change?
*Were there many smaller pieces of metal/flakes that might indicate grinding?
*Any notable noises?


Def want to be careful here. If this is some of your timing gear that is failing, it could destroy the engine if it fails completely. this may be a great thing you have found early. A scope could tell you more if it can be a bit better pinpointed.

 

[Amvcane]

Is it possible for broken injection pump gear teeth to make their way to the oil pan?
What year is the tractor and can you please post a pic of the pieces.

 

[finn1]

I wouldn’t run the engine anymore until the source of the debris is identified and the problem fixed.

I would look into the front gear train, particularly the injection pump drive.

I remember there being similar issues with Cummins B series engines in the mid 80s. The broken gear teeth would eventually jam the gear train and break the front cover and block.

 

[Jkrph]

My photography skills aren’t much.

I last changed the oil at 700 hours.

There was no sign of any metal pieces, shavings, dust, etc.

There has been no smoking, noises, or hiccups of any kind. I haven’t been using it since I found the teeth in the oil.

I’m thinking I need to take the front gear housing off and see what things look like.

 

[thepumpguysc]

The "look like" starter teeth.?? easy enough to check..
That would scare the bajesusoutame too..

 

[thepumpguysc]

They "look like" starter teeth.?? easy enough to check..
That would scare the bajesusoutame too..

 

[DK35vince]

They "look like" starter teeth.?? easy enough to check..
That would scare the bajesusoutame too..

Problem is I don't know how starter teeth could get in the engine oil.
Starter teeth would fall into the bellhousing.

 

[ritcheyvs]

View attachment 606114 My photography skills aren’t much.

I last changed the oil at 700 hours.

There was no sign of any metal pieces, shavings, dust, etc.

There has been no smoking, noises, or hiccups of any kind. I haven’t been using it since I found the teeth in the oil.

I’m thinking I need to take the front gear housing off and see what things look like.

Definitely not Injection pump gear teeth, which are tiny and look almost line needles, maybe 1/4 inch long.

 

[finn1]

Realign those three pieces and it almost looks like a woodruff key that was left in the engine during assembly and snagged somewhere in the geartrain and broke into three pieces.

Take the pieces to your dealer and have the service manager pull up the exploded view of the geartrain and pump drive. A couple of the gears will be keyed, including the crank, cam, and pump gears.

 

[Jkrph]

They looked curved like a woodruff key only because they broke off that way. The curved part is the break.

 

[Jkrph]

Here’s another shot showing the broken edge on 2 and the good side on one.

 

[VictorW]

I'd stop at a dealer and ask. A mechanic who has had an engine open would know. You say it runs fine. If that was an older style car engine, without overhead cams, I'd say teeth from the crank or camshaft gear. Sorry, I have never had to open my CK30hst engine so not much help.

 

[finn1]

Yup. The new and improved picture looks like gear teeth.

One thing I learned long ago: broken mechanical parts don’t heal by running an engine longer.

Also, if one tooth is broken, others are likely damaged and not far behind.

If the gear fails catastrophically and the cam slips out of time, the valves will contact the pistons and likely crack the cylinder walls as part of the ensuing collateral damage.

In the words of Clint Eastwood, do you feel lucky?

Have the dealer do a front end teardown to investigate and replace the broken parts.

 

[finn1]

Also, look at the front cover of your tractor and see if the power steering pump or hydraulic pump is gear driven and bolted onto the front cover, or if there are any access hole covers that could be removed for a quick look. The injection pump, for example, should have an access plate for getting at the gear to set timing. A mirror and light would help, as would a scope of some sort.

 

[lilranch2001]

Im not made of money, but on something like this I think I would let the dealer fix it

 

[xcgreene]

Have a look here, this is your gear ID on the front of the engine. It may be possible to ID which gear it came from by gauging the tooth length, if you have a tooth piece that is complete, and compare that length to the thickness of each gear (should the dealer have the spare parts to measure, or could acquire the measurements). If they are all different thicknesses, and one of them matches yours, you'll know right where to start scoping, and perhaps save yourself some time.

 

[grsthegreat]

i feel your pain. i hope it isnt a major repair. I used to repair alot of car engines with my brother growing up. Back them it was fun. Now days...i have a great and trusted mechanic that i use. Repairing them just wasn't fun anymore.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I think you really need to inspect the engine gears. As Finn said, it may be catastrophic for the crank and valves to get out of time. You can inspect the big gear on the front of the fuel camshaft by removing the cover plate in front of the injection pump (either the manual stop lever or the speed lever, depending on which version you have). The res of the front gears will likely require opening the rear case to inspect them. In addition to the gears in the gear case (crank. fuel, cam, idler, and oil pump) there are gears on the back end of the fuel camshaft that drive the hydraulic pump. This is a real shame.

 

[MichiganIron]

Yes, the front gear case cover needs to be pulled and the gear train inspected. Our concern would be the idler gear that runs the oil pump. If the engine runs with 3 missing teeth from the front gear train, we would be looking closely at the oil pump idler, since the engine would stay in time and run, but possibly without oil pressure.

Don't run the engine without pulling the gear case cover.

Hope this helps.