3-Point Hitch Ck2610 HST - Jumpy 3PH

[Tindall07]

Hello Everyone,

New CK2610HST, less than 5 hours on it. Used my road grader for the first time yesterday and had terrible control issues with the 3PH. Going down it is butter smooth, but when I go slow lifting up on the implement it is very jerky or jumpy. I tried playing with the adjustment valve for the speed directly fwd of the seat but it didnt seem to help with it.

Is this something normal I should grow accustomed too on the Kioti's or is there a fix for this?

Thank!

 

[Amvcane]

Can’t say it’s normal. My CK35 does the same thing. Down is smooth. Up is much different. As you very slowly but steadily move the lever the 3pt will bump up about1/2”, stop, then bump up a 1/2” again, over and over as you very slowly move the lever.
I doubt this will help, but your not alone.

 

[s219]

Is it position control? If so, those tend to work better if you move the lever faster/quicker than the hitch is coming up. In other words, raise it directly to "5" (or whatever height desired, by number or eye) and let the hitch raise. If you keep fiddling with the lever as it's raising, you can create a feedback loop that causes jitters.

With position control, there is actually a feedback linkage that tells the hitch when to start/stop raising. All the hand lever does is to set a target position. Any deviation between target position and feedback position will cause the hitch to raise up or bump up. If you keep moving the lever slowly the feedback will keep bumping the hitch up to meet your changing target and it will seem jumpy. Move your lever in larger faster motions and then let the hitch "catch up" before making more adjustments.

If that doesn't solve the problem, have the dealer look at it.

 

[PEJ5]

Check out this video. It sounds like this is your issue. It is adjustable, but you may want to have your dealer come out to adjust it under warranty.

Kioti CK20S Tractor MLS Valve Adjustment on three point hitch - YouTube

 

[Tindall07]

Can’t say it’s normal. My CK35 does the same thing. Down is smooth. Up is much different. As you very slowly but steadily move the lever the 3pt will bump up about1/2”, stop, then bump up a 1/2” again, over and over as you very slowly move the lever.
I doubt this will help, but your not alone.

Yes Sir, that's exactly what she is doing. You explained it better than I did.

Is it position control? If so, those tend to work better if you move the lever faster/quicker than the hitch is coming up. In other words, raise it directly to "5" (or whatever height desired, by number or eye) and let the hitch raise. If you keep fiddling with the lever as it's raising, you can create a feedback loop that causes jitters.

With position control, there is actually a feedback linkage that tells the hitch when to start/stop raising. All the hand lever does is to set a target position. Any deviation between target position and feedback position will cause the hitch to raise up or bump up. If you keep moving the lever slowly the feedback will keep bumping the hitch up to meet your changing target and it will seem jumpy. Move your lever in larger faster motions and then let the hitch "catch up" before making more adjustments.

If that doesn't solve the problem, have the dealer look at it.

That makes perfect sense, I know it will come up smooth if I quickly throw the handle up to a position. Its when I try and feather it that it stutters. Thank you.

Check out this video. It sounds like this is your issue. It is adjustable, but you may want to have your dealer come out to adjust it under warranty.

Thank you, I did watch this but my problem seems to be more related to what s219 said. His seems to really get stuck in that feedback loop. I imagine if I wanted I could make this MLS valve adjustment and fix my stuttering but it doesn't seem like its an issue right now. I just wanted to make sure something wasn't completely off with this tractor. Its my first "Big" one so its a learning process.

 

[ritcheyvs]

The exposed knob below the front of the seat only controls how fast the 3-pt lowers. In fact, it is common for this knob to get turned accidental (by feet) to the point the 3-pt will not lower at all. But sensitivity for raising the 3-pt is adjusted by a screw on the MLS valve. Some models have a removable plate to access this screw but others require the seat to be removed. See the video in post 4.

Added: If Kioti has truly switched to an inferior, poor-performing MLS valve on the -10 models, disregard all after the lowering discussion. I don't have a -10 model. I don't want a -10 model. And I don't know that much about them.

 

[Phantese]

Hello Everyone,

New CK2610HST, less than 5 hours on it. Used my road grader for the first time yesterday and had terrible control issues with the 3PH. Going down it is butter smooth, but when I go slow lifting up on the implement it is very jerky or jumpy. I tried playing with the adjustment valve for the speed directly fwd of the seat but it didnt seem to help with it.

Is this something normal I should grow accustomed too on the Kioti's or is there a fix for this?

Thank!

Hi,
Bad news! s219 is as correct as I've heard it explained. I have a new model DK4210SE Cab with backhoe ($50,000) and it does the same thing, I had a CK 4010SE and it shook like a Mothertrucker... I took it back to the dealer over some other issues and got the new model. I've called many dealers and Kioti USA as well (they were no help and actually never admitted to the following but a number of dealer's told me this).
Many owners have complained to their dealers and Kioti USA about the shake (myself included) all falling on deaf ears. It is a lower cost valve (better known as cheap) Kioti has chosen to put in their "10" series tractors (maybe others as well I'm not sure) and it is as S219 says, and if you choose to be satisfied with it, you must operate the 3 PH like S219 has offered. There are some "fixes" that can help the shake but until Kioti admits it's mistake we are stuck with it.
I know a dealer who added a small cushion tank (like in a home hot water system) to take out the pulsations, he says this makes it about 75% better, but not completely, his cost is about $300 he passes on to the customer (warranty won't cover it). He told me Kioti actually called him to see how he was dealing with reducing the bouncing.
I'm told Kioti USA has gone to Kioti Korea about the bouncing and Korea (Head Office) told them too bad so sad, no fix in the works. Kioti USA has told me to rev up the throttle then raise the 3 PH up full as fast as you can then drop it into position, that's their fix.
Now I paid extra for a Link peddle which allows me to connect the engine RPMs to the foot peddle (similar to a car when you push the foot peddle the tractor revs up and speed increases), this is a feature so we don't have to be at full throttle all the time and saves fuel, however Kioti now says when you want to raise your implement you need to go to full throttle then lift 3 PH then drop it. Who uses an implement that way, I wanted to raise and lower it as I was moving at low RPM without stopping to raise RPM to reposition the Box Blade, (I still can but I have the unholy shake to deal with then), so the link peddle isn't much good at times. Sorry for the last paragraph,
It was suggested to me (by a Kioti dealer none-the-less) to call and call Kioti USA and continue to complain about the shake until they had enough logged complaints they decide to deal with it as the dealers are helpless. I would suggest to all potential Kioti owners to get the dealer to put a lighter implement (blade, Landscape rake) on the 3PH and operate it in front of you before you make up your mind to buy it, and live with the shake. Heavier implements shake less, than lighter ones, If I had it to to do over again I would have stayed with my Kubota, as I know have a new machine and new company to deal with that I'm not so happy with.

 

[Kioti Paul]

I would argue that the dealers are NOT as helpless as Phantese says. They could either not stock the affected models (maybe not an option), or they could certainly educate any potential customer about known shortcomings concerning any of their tractors, and steer them towards equivalent models that don't have (known) (unresolved) issues.

Seems to me that a dealer would want to develop a good reputation in their community. If I purchased one of these models, then later found out the dealer had previous knowledge of the problem, I would be furious with the dealer and never even consider doing business with them again.

 

[Amvcane]

Neither myself nor the op has this bouncing or oscillation as seen in the video in post #4. Also, nothing like the symptoms that Phantese has.

 

[Phantese]

Neither myself nor the op has this bouncing or oscillation as seen in the video in post #4. Also, nothing like the symptoms that Phantese has.

Amvcane - Good to hear, I'm told this valve change was done on newer tractors, I don't have the particulars on the year Kioti stareted doing this, both my "10" series machines were 2018 models. It would be nice for folks to investigate and contribute what years (and machines) have the jumpy 3 PH, as Kioti "doesn't want to talk abot it", it's left to dealers to try to solve it after the sale.

 

[bvajgrt]

I have a 2018 CK3510. I have been using the crap out of the york rake and I have not had any bounce issue at all. I have used the rake in two modes, one with the solid top bar, and I have gone up and down with the rake to grade, and the other mode ( if you will ) I put a chain on the top bar, and use it in a float mode, witch works well around the yard.
Just throwing out what I have, and what its doing and not doing. Hopefully you can get this worked out, nothing worse than spending a ton of money on something only to have it not operate to specifications.

 

[Tindall07]

I have a 2018 CK3510. I have been using the crap out of the york rake and I have not had any bounce issue at all. I have used the rake in two modes, one with the solid top bar, and I have gone up and down with the rake to grade, and the other mode ( if you will ) I put a chain on the top bar, and use it in a float mode, witch works well around the yard.
Just throwing out what I have, and what its doing and not doing. Hopefully you can get this worked out, nothing worse than spending a ton of money on something only to have it not operate to specifications.

Yeah it does suck, but its not a huge deal because not often are you feathering a 3PH slowly up. Just wanted to make sure that it wasn't something I should be worrying about and taking it back to dealer to look at. But based off the responses I've seen so far in this thread it is a common issue that many of are having to deal with. :duh:

 

[Phantese]

Yeah it does suck, but its not a huge deal because not often are you feathering a 3PH slowly up. Just wanted to make sure that it wasn't something I should be worrying about and taking it back to dealer to look at. But based off the responses I've seen so far in this thread it is a common issue that many of are having to deal with. :duh:

​Tindall07,
Thanks for your input, I'm guessing you noticed it as well? If I can give you an example I've had? My Flail Mower (PTO driven) actually scrapes the PTO guard if you raise it up fully (my CK 4010 did this and the dealer fixed it by cutting a notch in the guard for the shaft :-( It's never a good idea to lift a PTO driven implement fast to full height (as Kioti suggest to stop the bouncing) with the shaft running - the increased angle puts excessive stress on the u joins, bearing on the implement, shaft and tractor. So when I'm using my flail and I get in a rough spot I lift the mower a couple of inches (this happens pretty regular with smaller HP PTO tractors (maybe not the 100HP stuff, but definitely with our tractors) so the options are:
1. Stop the PTO and wait for it to run down, then lift it up fast, then lower it again but stop it a couple of inches higher than you had it when it bogged down then restart the mower.
2.Feather it up with the shaft running (like almost everyone else does without thinking about it) but the shaking IMHO is just as detrimental, as it is transferred from the bouncing mower through the running shaft to the tractors bearings.
It's this scenario (PTO Operation that I'm most upset with) Box blades etc you can work around it. But for those of us with PTO driven Equip a $3000 flail with a running PTO shaft bouncing around each time it's moved up is unsettling to me. Sorry for the Long winded story, I appreciate you taking the time to contribute.​

 

[Tindall07]

Tindall07,
Thanks for your input, I'm guessing you noticed it as well? To me it's a quality control issue, like buying a new car and them not including the spare tire or donut (on purpose to save money)- not often you have to use it but it does suck when you need it and you thought you paid for it. Cheers

Who knows, maybe one day well see Kioti come out and acknowledge the fact that this was a design oversight and they offer a replacement part up that mitigates the jumping issue. One can hope :laughing: But at this point I wouldn't bring it up to my dealer unless it needed to go back for any other major maintenance.

 

[Phantese]

10-4 thanks

 

[Bruce on Tractor]

2019 Kioti CK3510SE HC, I have 15 hours on it now, it went in at 3 hours for a faulty control valve. Then noticed 3 point jumps like you wouldn't believe. Kioti won't do anything, talked and emailed them numerous times. Dealer can't do anything because they don't have the parts that would fix it under warranty. Kioti told me that the valve is an on or off valve and you can't "feather" it. Don't know what their R&D was thinking, but they need to be fired. I'm working with dealer now to see if Kioti will reverse the warranty inception so the dealer can sell it as a new tractor if I trade it in. If the manufacture won't stand behind there product, I sure as heck won't own it. Big hit in the wallet, but now it's a principle thing. And now the control valve is going bad, if you try to raise the FEL slowly it starts to go down before the fluid catches up, same rolling the bucket back. 219 Kioti CK351SE HC jerking - YouTube Attached the link to show you what it does.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Holy smokes!!! That is terrible. That looks like the valve or the mechanical linkages are really sticky. I wonder if that could be debris in the valve spool? I have tech data on most pre -10 models but not on the -10 models and I don't know how they differ. The service manuals on the EX models are pretty thorough. The fact this started after some normal behavior indicates (to me) that something failed, which could include debris in the oil fouling the valve. Nobody should have to tolerate this on a new tractor.

 

[Bruce on Tractor]

The first time I used the 3 point, it did that.

 

[Phantese]

Holy smokes!!! That is terrible. That looks like the valve or the mechanical linkages are really sticky. I wonder if that could be debris in the valve spool? I have tech data on most pre -10 models but not on the -10 models and I don't know how they differ. The service manuals on the EX models are pretty thorough. The fact this started after some normal behavior indicates (to me) that something failed, which could include debris in the oil fouling the valve. Nobody should have to tolerate this on a new tractor.

It's not dirt or any impurities in the hydraulic system it's working as designed - it was intended to do that. I'm talking about the bounce and jump in the 3 point hitch. Kioti Korea thought if it was good enough for the Korean built tractors it would be good enough for the Korean designed American Built tractors. I've already gone through this with at least seven dealerships I have polled, some say they've never heard of it but others put the blame squarely on Kioti. Kioti USA they say they are helpless and at the mercy of Kioti Korea, got this from a frustrated dealer. I'm a bit sour as well because my tractor was $50,000 and it bounces and jumps on the 3PH hitch as well. It too is a matter of principle for me

 

[k0ua]

The exposed knob below the front of the seat only controls how fast the 3-pt lowers. In fact, it is common for this knob to get turned accidental (by feet) to the point the 3-pt will not lower at all. But sensitivity for raising the 3-pt is adjusted by a screw on the MLS valve. Some models have a removable plate to access this screw but others require the seat to be removed. See the video in post 4.

Added: If Kioti has truly switched to an inferior, poor-performing MLS valve on the -10 models, disregard all after the lowering discussion. I don't have a -10 model. I don't want a -10 model. And I don't know that much about them.

Hmmm. Sounds just like the older Kubota 2800, 3400, 3700 "Standard L " series. The higher priced Grand L's are butter smooth going up or down, but the "Standard" tractors all had that exact problem. Including the one I owned. One of the reason's I traded it off for the present Kioti. Kubota's stated (by the area rep) solution was if you don't like the "standard" series 3 point, buy a Grand L. So I bought a Kioti. But I bought a top of the line (at the time) Kioti.