CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours

   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #51  
And to me it looks like part of the ring is still in there.

View attachment 434988

Yes, in that picture it is clear that it was a 2-piece ring and seems to be staying in the bottom of the cylinder and may be intact. That means the piston just shattered for no apparent reason. It may have been cracked for a long time and you did not realize it. The broken pieces can be inspected to determine when cracks first developed.
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #52  
Can you get the bad piston out so you can run it on 3 cylinders?
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #53  
I would like to thank each one of you for contributing to this discussion. The input you've all offered here has definitely changed my attitude. At first I was ready to give up and cut my losses on this tractor. After getting nowhere initially with my dealer, I thought I'd have to sell it at a tremendous loss *if* I could find a buyer that needed a KL130 loader and a broken tractor to go with it. The situation has changed now, thanks to you folks.

One of the suggestions above was to first contact my dealer and then contact Kioti directly. Well, I had already tried the dealer which resulted in the tractor going to the back of their lot and being forgotten about for nearly three weeks. So yesterday, I called the main Kioti contact number. I described the problem with the tractor and the dealer situation (or lack of it) to the customer service representative, and sent some high-resolution photos to her via email. I'm now waiting for an official response, but she told me there is a possibility that Kioti might choose to handle this as an out-of-warranty repair, which means they will provide the parts and I pay for the labor. The catch is, the repair work would have to be done through the selling dealer.

After I got off the phone, I drove up to see the dealer again. Before, I was The Invisible Man. And I was pretty sure we'd never see each other again. But Kioti said I needed to re-build that bridge, so I took a chance and happened to catch the owner right before closing time. I told him I'd called Kioti customer service and showed him some 8x10 prints of the oil pan and piston photos. I also brought along a can with all the little piston pieces, and shared what Kioti had told me about the possibility of an out-of-warranty repair which would have to be through their shop. Suddenly I wasn't invisible anymore. His service manager joined us and took photos of my prints to email to his Kioti rep. They told me they had never seen a lower piston failure like that before and that in their opinion it's most likely not a case of operator abuse. They said the piston will tell the full story of what happened to it, and they were ready to clear a bay and pull it. I said many thanks and I hope we can do that. It depends entirely on Kioti.



If Kioti wants to examine what's left of that piston and all of the pieces that came out of the oil pan, then I'm more than happy to oblige, but it's strictly a matter of how much it will cost me to provide that for them. Right now it looks like I'll have to cover the labor involved, and I don't yet have a figure for that estimate. I'm already out $500 on this thing. It cost me $250 for the second mechanic (see original post) to go over the engine top to bottom to find the source of the knock, which initially sounded like a top-end clatter. I know that's how you do it -- top to bottom. He checked lifters, injectors, etc. and the oil pan was one of the last things on that list. The other $250 was what I had to pay a fellow in my neighborhood to come over and shred my place, which badly needed it and couldn't wait because we had company coming over for the weekend. That $500 is on me, no argument there. How much more am I going to pay is the question. I'll have to balance the dealer's labor estimate against my Plan B.

Plan B involves a third diesel mechanic, a local fellow whom I've done business with for many years (he just bought a Mahindra... hmm). If I can get my hands on a new piston and a ring set, he says he can put 'em in. If Kioti chooses to pass, then I'll go this route. And then most likely sell the CK35 or trade it in. Either way, I'm better off now than I was when I started this thread, thanks to you guys. Much appreciated.

My listening to my local dealer explain it, Kioti is genuinely interested in making and retaining happy customers and fostering good will. The company itself is attempting a land grab in market share and has poured piles of money into its new designs, as well as dealer and parts warehousing expansion.
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours
  • Thread Starter
#54  
Can you get the bad piston out so you can run it on 3 cylinders?

In this engine series, there's only three cylinders to begin with.

... listening to my local dealer explain it, Kioti is genuinely interested in making and retaining happy customers and fostering good will.

I'd like very much to believe that and see it happen. Fingers crossed!
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #55  
In this engine series, there's only three cylinders to begin with.



I'd like very much to believe that and see it happen. Fingers crossed!

Here's the way I see it. After ~ 2 days this thread has almost 1500 views. The Ford New Holland dealer here where I bought my little machine 32 years ago now also sells Kioti. As much as I love the little Ford, the Kiotis were very tempting AND I likely will upgrade in the next few years. I'll be watching this situation very closely, because indeed pistons that fail at 400 hours are a deal breaker for me. That said, IF Kioti makes it right then they will indeed have earned a fan- and I'll bet I'm not alone on that
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #56  
. I'll be watching this situation very closely, because indeed pistons that fail at 400 hours are a deal breaker for me.
You make it sound like a common issue.
It the first ever remember seeing.
I have just under 2000 hours on basically the same engine on my 2001 DK 35 and expecting thousands more.
 
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   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours
  • Thread Starter
#57  
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #58  
You make it sound like a common issue.
It the first ever remember seeing.
I have just under 2000 hours on basically the same engine on my 2001 DK 35 and expecting thousands more.
Exactly the point, Vince. If one out of 100 of these fails, or even one out of 1000 it makes the case all the stronger that this one was defective from the get-go. How Kioti handles it is more important to me than the actual failure rate of their machines. If I sink upwards of 20 grand into a machine I'm not placing a bet in Vegas. I'm making an investment that should pay off after about 20 years of use. It's been said that the measure of a country is in how they treat the lowest of their citizens. I measure a company the same way. This is an opportunity for Kioti to show that they really do care about their customers. We'll see how they handle it. And I hope you get another 2000 out of your tractor. I don't wish tractor break downs on anyone.;)
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #59  
To the OP: Don't start it again. PERIOD. Use whatever needs to be used to get the loader off, without starting the engine, and it off the trailer.
Also, DON'T give in to the first offer from some front line person at Kioti customer service who tells you you will have to pay labor on this fix. You're already out money, you're selling dealer was asleep at the wheel from the get go, and now you have everyone's attention at the dealer's and at Kioti corporate.
Don't worry about posting pics on TBN, and Kioti is in no position to censor your participation here.

I've personally been involved in solving an issue with DK-40 Series Kiotis that had a reverse squeal. I and others here kept after them on the issue, and they resolved it to everyone's satisfaction. If this tractor, your's in particular, turns out to be a 'special case', in that this issue has not been seen before it is something Kioti needs to take a close look at and see what went wrong, and why, if possible to determine, at this point. The fewer people who work on it, your engine, the better chance of coming to a reasonable cause/effect answer.
Endless discussion/speculation of whether pieces of ring are still attached to the blown piston are irrelevant. What needs to be done is to carefully dismantle the engine to the point that a complete damage assessment can be performed and then you, your dealer and Kioti Corporate need to agree on a plan to fix it, and who is going to pay for what.

After that point you can decide on various outcomes, already suggested for you to come out of this with at worst, a repaired tractor, to which you contributed say breakdown labor and Kioti and your dealer share in reassembly labor and all parts and fluids, etc., or some other better more favorable to you solution. Keep your options open while negotiating, and don't settle at the first offer, just to get it done.

Stay strong, TBN Kioti fans are behind you in this endeavor.

And, as to comments about if Kioti pistons, and their tractors, and who stands behind their product continue; it's more than obvious this is coming from someone who has never owned a Kioti, and knows little about them as a company and what they're willing to do for customers.
One piston failed. No one yet knows why. We don't know if it was the neighbor's use, what he was using the tractor for, or what his level of experience with tractors is. Ether is highly unlikely, though if it was used could cause the result of damaging the engine.
A piston that might have had an unseeable defect, not visible to the naked eye could have failed with no 'abuse' for the user at the time it blew up.
Regardless, this is a first anyone here has seen or heard of a piston failing. Anyone who works with engines, especially DIESEL engines, knows things fail all the time for various reasons. Some make sense, others don't necessarily add up. So far this doesn't add up, but it will once taken apart far enough to shed more light than we see now. Does it reflect badly on Kioti as a company, or this model tractor? NO.
Wait for more data, then analyze the situation.
 
   / CK35 HST shattered piston at 400 hours #60  
Can you get the bad piston out so you can run it on 3 cylinders?

:D 2 cylinders? Most of us would not recommend that- OR starting it again

I really Hope Kioti engineering will want to see this engine. Maybe as a by- back for analysis.

I truly believe this kind of failure is very unusual.

Hope for a favorable outcome for the OP and his tractor, And if buying new- Kioti would Still be on my short list for purchase.
 

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