Class B RV?

[Bird]

Don, I have particular very small wine glasses that I prefer. We bought them at the Taylor Winery in New York when we were there. My wife had a small glass of wine a couple of days ago. She only drinks 3 or 4 glasses a year. Mogen David? Never tried it. When I was a rookie cop, over 40 years ago, the wine of choice among the down and out winos in Dallas was Thunderbird. I tried it once; couldn't decide whether it was just a tiny bit better or a tiny bit worse than kerosene. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif At any rate, it was bad enough that over 20 years ago the winos' wine of choice changed to Mogen David (MD20-20), best known on the streeets as "Mad Dog 20-20". I still haven't tried that one. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

For my taste, the best white wine I ever found was a Gewurztraminer from the Stewart Vineyards south of Yakima, WA, but with my usual luck, it was a small winery that closed after Dr. Stewart died.

 

[OkeeDon]

<font color="blue">You don't get that kind of mileage without giving up something. </font>

I agree. I'm an old 50's hotrodder who long ago figured out that more oomph = less economy. But, modern technology and diesels keep throwing me curves. The M-B engine is a 5 cylinder turbo diesel that is rated at 154 HP and 234 ft.lbs of torque. I'm too lazy to look it up, but a gas engine with that much torque would be a fair bit bigger and less economical. It's rated to pull a 5,000 lb. trailer; my 200 HP Windstar is only rated at 3,000 lb.

I'm somewhat used to that HP rating; my V6 Dakota is rated at 150 HP, with nowhere near that amount of torque, and I've had some fearsome loads in it, and pulled trailers far heavier than was practical.

Car & Driver is a sports car magazine. They got a 10 passenger Sprinter back in 2003 to haul their personnel to a "shootout" test (their annual "ten best" test). They were so impressed with the Sprinter they did a review of it. Part of what they said was, <font color="blue">"In our less-than-sensitive hands, the Sprinter returned an observed 30 mpg—pretty swell for a 10-passenger anything. It beats the tar out of an eight-passenger Chevy Express's 17 mpg and humiliates a 10-seat Dodge Ram 3500's 13 mpg. Not that a single U.S. motorist much cares."</font> They also got it to 90 MPH, but admitted that it took about as long to get to that speed as a Porsche 911 Turbo if you stopped on the way for wholesale plumbing supplies.

I'm expecting that the RV conversion will probably add about as much weight as 10 passengers with their luggage, and that pulling a 2500 lb. utility trailer won't speed it up, any, but I expect it to be reasonable performance for a motor home. I'm used to taking a long time to get up to speed and an even longer time to come to a stop; I kind of think that the Sprinter will at least stop better.

I found a Forest River dealer who has a couple of their version in stock, but he's 150 miles away and I'll have to make some arrangements to get over there to test drive. The RoadTrek dealer is right in town in Okeechobee, but they only introduced them at the end of July; the dealers don't have them, yet.

 

[EastTexFrank]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> couldn't decide whether it was just a tiny bit better or a tiny bit worse than kerosene </font> )</font>

Well Bird, I have another one for you to add to your "never try again list". Many years ago, when we lived in London, my B-I-L's ship made a courtesy call. He was a lifer in the navy. We had him and some of his buddies stay for a time while they hit all the sights. They knew that we liked wine, so when they left they gave us a few bottles of "real American wine". It was called "Ripple". I should have known something was up when it came with a screw top and the lable announced that it "contains real grape juice". That was the worst stuff that I had ever tasted. It did make a great toilet lime and scale remover though.

 

[Bird]

Yep, Frank, I've tasted Ripple. Sure wasn't good enough to ever buy any, but not nearly as bad as Thunderbird. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[LGinIA]

Perhaps some may also want to also consider the new Winnebago Industries View and Navion products. Exclusive use of the new Sprinter cutaway chassis with dual rear wheels and a larger gvw. Company offers two 23' floorplans and is a class C rather than a B Van.
www.winnebagoind.com

 

[DaNag]

Buying a new RV, even a smaller Sprinter-based unit, is never a wise financial move. They drop in value incredibly quickly - much faster than vehicles. If you don't pay cash, you'll be upside down on virtually any loan until the thing is almost paid off. If you do pay cash, and decide to sell in a few years, you'll lose your shirt.

It's also an item that is very easy to find used, in excellent condition with very low miles, for huge savings over new. While there probably aren't many Sprinters on the used market yet, you could easily find a 2 year old Class C, in excellent shape and low miles, for less than half the price of a new Sprinter-based unit. That buys a LOT of gas and maintenance.

You mention towing, but I'm not sure if you mean while RV'ing, or if you would just use the utility trailer for local errands. If the latter, have you considered a newer truck and travel trailer? You would end up with a more functional daily driver, and a roomier "RV". Insurance would likely be about the same as the Sprinter (travel trailer insurance is dirt cheap, trucks are pretty low as well), and I'd be willing to bet you could get a very nice 1-2 year old travel trailer, and 1-2 year old diesel truck for much less than a new Sprinter. You also wouldn't take as big a hit if you decided to sell in a few years.

The truck/trailer combo would burn more fuel, but again - you could get an excellent used diesel truck and newer 26-28' travel trailer for around $50K.

I'm intrigued by your idea, but it's just more money than I'd be willing to spend given the alternatives.

 

[OkeeDon]

DaNag, some very good thoughts. I've considered almost all of them. The cost of a Class C is considerably more, considering that it would be parked when not traveling, would require an extra registration and insurance, and the cost of another vehicle to drive.

The Sprinter will take my wife and I and another couple to dinner, park in an ordinary lot, carry bulky items through the rear doors and on top of the bed, and do it all with better fuel mileage than my current Windstar! It can also replace my truck considering that I already own two flat bed, open trailers -- one a tandem axle 16' and the other a single axle 10'. Hook up the trailer and pull the tractor, or a small car, or anything I need to pick up at the box store.

The trailer I described above was strictly for RV travel -- it would be my garage (golf cart and motor scooter), storage shed (outdoor furniture, fire pit, grill, etc.) and closet. I like gadgets, and was planning to pull a trailer behind the diesel pusher we were planning to buy -- exceot that trailer would have been a little larger and carried a Miata instead of a motor scooter.

I have considered the new truck and a 5th wheel trailer. In fact, that's probably how I would have gone if I hadn't discovered the Sprinter-based Class B's. It eliminates an extra vehicle and insurance. One of the difficulties, however, is that I can't figure out how to take along the golf cart, and I need the cart for transportation around an RV park because of my health problems. Another is that the fuel mileage is just not good enough, not only while traveling, but also while daily driving. Finally, maybe my taste is too expensive, but I'd be hard-pressed to find a newer F250 diesel and a newer 5th wheel for $50K -- I looked at 5th wheels that ran over $100K new, and a new F250 would be over $40K.


I'm well aware of the "hit" we'll take on a new RV financially. I was planning to buy a year or two year old diesel pusher for that reason. And, I'm aware that from an accounting standpoint, it doesn't make sense to spend $85K for a vehicle to save maybe $1,000 per year in fuel when there are less expensive alternatives.

But, there's a principle involved. I simply refuse to take part any longer in the senseless over use of energy resources. There are really only two alternatives for me: use less fuel and still travel, or don't travel. The money is important but secondary.

 

[mwechtal]

OkeeDon,
I know how to get you extra space for the golf cart.
1) There are 5th wheel trailers that have a rear "garage" that would work well.
2) Don't use a 5th wheel trailer. Use a regular trailer with a compensating hitch.

We know a couple that did the gem and mineral circuit for about 20 years with a diesel pickup with hydraulic liftgate, and an Airstream. They needed the Diesel to haul around all those rocks. You could probably get away with a 3/4 ton. With most 5th wheel trailers, you end up with a huge frontal area that really cuts down on mileage and requires a heavier pickup. Maybe even pull the trailer behind a Sprinter van?

Mike

 

[OkeeDon]

I looked at the garage models (usually called some variant of "toy hauler"), and rejected them for my use. Many of them have no partition between the garage and the living quarters. But, the real reason was sillier -- my wife likes the rear living quarters with big windows in many of the trailers, and didn't like the garage being in the way. I've never see one with a front cargo area and side ramp -- that would be cool.

Your other suggestion is a good one -- if the Sprinter doesn;t work out once we actually see one (too slow or too small), then a tag trailer camper is a real possibility -- we can put the golf cart in the bed of the pickup, with some effort. I understand that 5th wheels are supposed to be much easier to tow, but I'm really used to towing tag trailers -- I've hauled race cars all over the Southeast.