Clay, Clay... oh yeah, and MORE Clay!

[Dougster]

First, and I'm no expert on this, be sure the area isn't considered a wetland. Filling a wetland and getting caught will make your life very unpleasant. Assuming it's not a wetland - you can improve the soil, but if you truck in stuff you will have to use mind-blowing quantities to do any good. Think multiple semi loads before you start seeing a difference. It doesn't sound like that's in your budget, at least if you're paying for it.

The good news is that it is not legally considered a wetland (unless I leave it this way much longer... then who knows?) and yes, I expect that we are talking about a LOT of material. I remember when neighbors in the same situation had to do what I am doing now many years ago. It was a really big deal. I put off the problem for decades... but now I have the time... and the tractor... and soon the dump trailer... so if not now, then when?

Two thoughts on cheaper options:
1) Try to find a local business that cleans out horse manure from rich people's stables. We have one locally and are expecting 30 yards of totally FREE horse manure in the next couple weeks. It generally has no market value and otherwise the hauler takes it to the dump and pays to get rid of it. It is mostly organic material and should help the soil out a fair bit.
2) What do you have growing on it now? If you can get some grass to grow, get it growing really vigorously and mow it frequently. If it won't survive the winter, till it in in the fall. You might even try sorghum-sudangrass or buckwheat as "green manure" type crops that will create tons of organic matter that you can add to the soil by mowing or tilling (fall tilling in the case of buckwheat). Annual ryegrass would be another option. This won't be an instant fix, but the cost will be far lower than trucking in loads of sand or limestone.

Excellent ideas... and I will do some research into "free" sources around here. But on your second point... almost nothing worthwhile or useful will grow in the "swamp" area. The swamp area is just too wet and too shady... the latter issue to be addressed this summer as well! Over the years, it has essentially gone back to "natural growth" (think: weeds) which I weed-whack and mow down when it is not too wet and slimy back there.

Dougster

 

[EddieWalker]

I think you need to address the water issue before you start working on improving your soil quality. From what I understand, you have an area that holds water and the clay makes it impossible for you to do anything. Clay holds water, so it's a double edged issue.

In other areas that do not hold water, is the clay an issue? You already have topsoil, so I'm assuming you have grass already growing on it?

You also said that it's wet most of the year because of the springs. Again, improving the quality of the soil will do nothing about the springs or standing water.

My first thougt is that you have a great spot for a pond.

If that's not an option, then you need to start removing material to get the land to dry out. Pipes, french drains and other underground systems will help, but changing the slope of your land is the only sure way to get it done right. This might be dozer work, or it might be something you can do with your FEL and your tractor.

The water needs a way to leave the area it's giving you problems. You goal is should be to create that path. I've had similar issues and first dug a trench with my bakhoe. It's ugly, but very effective. Then I come back and take away more material to make it blend in and look like part of the surrounding lanscape.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[Dougster]

My first thougt is that you have a great spot for a pond.

Well, some would say I've already got a pond! I prefer to call it my swamp!

But to your other excellent points... some areas of my yard are definitely better (and worse) than others. The single biggest problem is the depressed swamp right behind the house (where I was forced long ago to install a drain pipe system). The natural springs are back up the hill behind my house. They do not run constantly and year round behind my particular house... although they do that just a few houses down the street. My own springs tend to be more active during rainfalls and/or when the water table goes high. The springs will always be there... but I will terrace the worst areas and pitch them toward the back of my property... perhaps even to a small detention pond of sorts.

No bulldozer readily available... but I'll do what I can with my FEL, BH and a box blade.

Dougster

 

[toolaholic]

There,s is a lot at stake Here. I would invest $2000 in a GEOTECH to lay out the fix. We use them a lot. Nothing worse than putting in a lot of $$ and hard work to end up with a poor result. Ones that work in Your local will already know the area ,and what's under it. May even be cheaper than $2000. When I call in a street address to them , they can usually describe what I'll find under the ground! Here in S. F. Geos. are used on most projects. because of Quakes.
Use to live in Mass. ,Do You know ,many years ago the biggest Quake ever to hit North Americe was in Mass.? Good luck

 

[Dougster]

There,s is a lot at stake Here. I would invest $2000 in a GEOTECH to lay out the fix. We use them a lot. Nothing worse than putting in a lot of $$ and hard work to end up with a poor result. Ones that work in Your local will already know the area ,and what's under it. May even be cheaper than $2000. When I call in a street address to them , they can usually describe what I'll find under the ground! Here in S. F. Geos. are used on most projects. because of Quakes. Use to live in Mass. Do You know , many years ago the biggest Quake ever to hit North Americe was in Mass.? Good luck

Good thought. I will be bringing in a local civil engineering firm anyway to re-mark the property lines (a constant source of dispute with my expansionist neighbors) before I go too far. I'll see what they say about the soil properties and remediation in this neighborhood. I'm certain they have dealt with it many times before.

Dougster

 

[Defective]

The mixing strategy is a whole 'nother topic... and thank you for bringing it up. I have lots of ideas on how to do this, but the space I can devote to the mixing operation initially is fairly limited.

A good, heavy tiller for the back of your tractor will do wonders mixing up materials that are already broken up. If the sand is on the bottom and the clay on top, the clay should already be starting to dry a bit by the time you start tilling.

The funny part is that saving my existing "swamp" drainage system while doing this initial work is not going to be easy. It might be best if I just trash that existing system first and build another one... if still necessary... after I am done mixing.

I advised from the assumption that you were planning to fix the drainage issue first. Probably, the best bet would be to simply ditch around the swamp & let the water go around. You may, of course, find that there are more springs inside the swamp...

 

[PBinWA]

I heard tilled up gator was a good amendment for clay soil.

I used a lot of free horse poo for mine and it is doing fine now. I would recommend dealing with the drainage issue first though.

 

[Dougster]

A good, heavy tiller for the back of your tractor will do wonders mixing up materials that are already broken up. If the sand is on the bottom and the clay on top, the clay should already be starting to dry a bit by the time you start tilling.
I advised from the assumption that you were planning to fix the drainage issue first. Probably, the best bet would be to simply ditch around the swamp & let the water go around. You may, of course, find that there are more springs inside the swamp...

The trick will be for me to catch the clay just at that exact moment where it is firm enough to drive on but not so hard that it can't be broken up. I will have a 72" tiller soon enough, but I fear it will not mix deep enough. I am starting to wonder if a disk harrow would be more effective.

The two problems are almost impossible to separate. I will pretty much have to work around the drainage issue until the "swamp" is stabilized enough to cross it regularly with the tractor. If it is rainy or soggy enough that the springs start flowing, I will simply have to stop work and wait until it dries.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

I heard tilled up gator was a good amendment for clay soil. I used a lot of free horse poo for mine and it is doing fine now. I would recommend dealing with the drainage issue first though.

It's a "which came (comes?) first" issue... the chicken or the egg. To get to the natural springs, I must traverse the swamp. But I cannot traverse the swamp until the drainage problem goes away or at least dries out enough as it eventually does each spring or summer.

The 'gator already left for Florida as he does every year about this time. Let's hope he is in for a big surprise if he ever comes back!

Dougster

 

[PBinWA]

I excavated out a huge layer of my hill side and then put layers of clay and poo down and tilled them in between.

The nice thing with the poo is that if you have a trailer and strong back you can usually get it for free (not counting pain, time, and sweat).

PB