clutch work, new pressure plate fingers or new pp assembly?

[KJM]

Do you know what the worst feeling in the world is when doing a clutch job? It's when the job is one of the real killer jobs that take forever and, when you are finally finished and sit in the seat to back her out of the garage and you look over in the passenger seat and see the box with the throw out bearing sitting there. That sucks!! Yeah, you know how I know that! For just a split second you think, "will it work without a throw out bearing...?"

Nah - my father and I (well, mostly him - I was about 12years old at the time ) replaced the clutch on a 1960 Vanguard (british vehicle - probably unheard of in the US). After doing the job, we couldn't find the fencing pliers - last used to twitch some wire which held the gearbox up. Hmmm. Started the thing - BANG! CLUNK! GRIND! Hmmm - we found the pliers - In the time honoured "lets just see if it *still* makes the noise, eventually it stopped making the noise. It would have been less than a year later when the engine had to come out (for some reason I don't recall - but it was a british vehicle, so.. ) and the pliers had disappeared!! There were no holes big enough for them to escape - we could see them through one of the little inspection holes when we first put it together. The rubber bung in the inspection hole was still there... Everytime I split an engine/tranny - my father always tells me to check the tools! Twice!

/Kevin

 

[charlz]

I have done a number of clutches over the years, but I have never
heard of separately replaceable pressure plate fingers. How does that
work?

First one that I have seen this way as well. There is a pic here from TractorSmart online parts ordering:

http://www.tractorsmart.com/partspic/6659113400.gif

You can see the fingers held on by bolts, these bolt the fingers to a metal block which go through the outer cover and to the actual pressure plate. Looks like when you press in on the fingers they pull on the blocks etc. First one I have seen with so few fingers, maybe because it is a low rpm application? Mechanically it is the most straightforward from a 'how does a clutch/pressure plate work' standpoint.

I stopped by the dealers yesterday and picked up a new clutch disk, pressure plate, pilot bushing, pilot bushing oil seal and throw out bearing .. a little over $220.

Last night I pulled the pressure plate and flywheel. The clutch disk was worn more that I originally thought, just starting to get to the rivets on one side. The flywheel bolts were, surprisingly, not that tight but had a 'keeper plate' where you bend the tabs to keep them from backing out. They also look like shear bolts in that they have a narrow area just down from the head of the bolt. I expected the flywheel to be harder to pull as well but it actually just walked right off.

The pilot bushing was still there and did not look too bad but I extracted it anyway, the pilot bushing oil seal was pretty much dust and pieces. On the way home from the dealers I saw a place called 'Clutch World' that advertised on their sign 'We resurface flywheels' hmmm guess I will have to give them a call

So now I am waiting for my service manual for torque specs, assembly detail etc (which way did that oil seal go? hmmm). So far it is going waaay too easy which means either it is going to be really hard to get back together or I have a cut/pinched finger or some other injury awaiting me

Charles

 

[mikim]

So far it is going waaay too easy
for me at least, that almost always makes me worry - what am I doing wrong? .... and when I'm done with a job - once in awhile - there's an extra bolt or nut or whatever that shows up laying on the floor ....."now where did that come from?" Then I spend the next hour running the whole job through my head to make sure it's an old part that got replaced but not picked up. and of course it means sweating bullets during operation for awhile hoping nothing falls apart from lack of that bolt.

 

[KJM]

Charles,
In case it speeds things up for you:
Flywheel/Crank bolts - 40 to 43 ft lbs
Pressure plate/Flywheel bolts - Hmmm - manual has no torque setting! "...securely tighten cap screws.." . Cute.
Engine/gearbox bolts - 15 to 22 ft lbs

I sheared one pressure plate bolt - the ones used are NOT what in Australia are called "hi tensile". I think they are designed to shear when some goofey person applies too much oomph. They are standard M8 bolts. No grade markings, but are "necked" so they'll shear. In Australia we are metric, but have been imperial in the recent past, so there is never an issue sourcing either sizes!

My torque wrench was set for 20 ft lbs - they weren't insanely tight when I disassembled.. I didn't torque the bell housing bolts 15 to 22 ft lbs? Nah, you can't get the sodding torque wrench in there - so I made use of my "calibrated" arm!

Cheers
/Kevin

 

[charlz]

Charles,
In case it speeds things up for you:
Flywheel/Crank bolts - 40 to 43 ft lbs
Pressure plate/Flywheel bolts - Hmmm - manual has no torque setting! "...securely tighten cap screws.." . Cute.
Engine/gearbox bolts - 15 to 22 ft lbs

I sheared one pressure plate bolt - the ones used are NOT what in Australia are called "hi tensile". I think they are designed to shear when some goofey person applies too much oomph. They are standard M8 bolts. No grade markings, but are "necked" so they'll shear. In Australia we are metric, but have been imperial in the recent past, so there is never an issue sourcing either sizes!

My torque wrench was set for 20 ft lbs - they weren't insanely tight when I disassembled.. I didn't torque the bell housing bolts 15 to 22 ft lbs? Nah, you can't get the sodding torque wrench in there - so I made use of my "calibrated" arm!

Cheers
/Kevin

Thanks for the info, I did get my WSM manual today and was a bit disappointed in the lack of torque values for the pressure plate bolts. Generally dissapointed in the lack of detail on the clutch, but then I guess if you have seen one you have seen them all

When working on the release/throwout bearing I found the input shaft can be pulled out... makes a great clutch plate alignment tool

I had the flywheel resurfaced today, got it, the pilot bushing, oil seal and pressure plate installed. Just need to torque the pressure plate bolts and I will be able to start putting it all back together.

Should be done tomorrow, I thank everyone for their input!

Charles

 

[charlz]

Well got it all put back together today, works like a champ!

Thanks!

Charles

 

[johnk]

Glad to hear you're both back to work.....

 

[PeterT]

charlz
Don't you feel better now knowing it is all new in there? I know I would.

Good luck
PeterT

 

[charlz]

charlz
Don't you feel better now knowing it is all new in there? I know I would.

Good luck
PeterT

I do but I would like to have found it about 20 engine hours earlier.. lke when I was buying it that way I could have deducted the $250+ for parts from the purchase price. The clutch was fine until I did a bunch of loader work moving dirt around. Oh well, so it goes with older equipment. I have a few more things to work over on this tractor and then I think I will be set for at least a few years

Charles

 

[john_bud]

I do but I would like to have found it about 20 engine hours earlier.. lke when I was buying it that way I could have deducted the $250+ for parts from the purchase price. The clutch was fine until I did a bunch of loader work moving dirt around. Oh well, so it goes with older equipment. I have a few more things to work over on this tractor and then I think I will be set for at least a few years

Charles

Charles,

If the clutch was ok before you did 20 hours of loader work, I would be real suspisious that the clutch peddle adjustment was off. If the clutch was not completely engaged, you could have been wearing it a bunch on every use.

Follow the WSM on setting up the peddle height and free play.

jb