clutch

[allen6634]

i just traded for a 600 ford it needs some work ( not a suprise) this tractors pto will run sitting in nutrual but when i push the clutch in the pto quits is this right i thought that my pto will run all the time ,also the guy i got it from told methe reason the lift doesn't work is that because he put the wrong oil in it he said i need to fill it with gear oil ,i have a manual on the way , does this sound like something to be real worried about? thanks

 

[Gary Fowler]

I think the 600 model Ford had a single stage clutch just like the 8N, cant remember. Remember the 8N hydraulic pump wouldnt work with the clutch engaged. You had to either lift while travelling or shift to N and release the clutch to raise the lift. We had an 861 and I know the 861 had a two stage clutch and live PTO. You could adjust the clutch so that about half way down stopped the tractor and push all the way stopped the PTO.
Maybe putting in 90w gear oil will make the pump work. Some of the old iron used heavy oil for hydraulics.
Soundguy is a Ford man and could likely direct you on this.

 

[Soundguy]

600 is a series designation menaing a tractor 134ci engine made for model years 55-57


adding a middle digit to the series id will make it a model id

640, 650, 660, etc.

the 640 is a 4spd with single clutch, non live pto

the 650 is a 5spd with single clutch, non live pto

the 660 is a 5spd with dual clutch, live pto

all live pto means is when you press the clutch half way that the drivetrian iis clutched.. if you press it all the way, it kills it all.

hyds takes utf oil... NOT gear oil.

if the hyds don't work, burp the pump from the plug onthe top of the head.. if oil there, then check the plug onthe 3x5 cover unde rthe seat.. if oil there, and no lift.. unloader valve is liekyl stuck.. pretty common sticker.

top cover oring and gasket kit is a whoipping 15$ and is not difficult to disassemble and get stuck stuff moving unless it's been under water...

do not put gear oil into the hyds... that was old 9n-2n-8n stuff... putting too heavy of oil in a pump not designed for it will cause cavitation.. and destroy the pump eventually..

all my fords have working hyds.. can't remember how many were bought working.. but they are not difficult to fix..

 

[allen6634]

i was mowing today with the tractor the lift started to go up and stoped so now i don't think any major problem is there only thing i did different to the tractor was to take the small plate off and put it back on i didn't o any further , i'm still waiting for a manual so you are telling me that i have to run the single there is no way to put a double clutch on i would like to keep the tractors pto engaged wile istop or atlest back up i have another thing im not happy with the ground speed i would like a lower 1st gear can i et one?

 

[Soundguy]

1, untill you id what tractor you have.. i can't tell you anything.

2, unless it's a 660/661, stomping the clutch is gonna kill the pto... if it is a 660/661, then you can stop the drivetrain and change gears and whatnot by depressing the clutch half way.

3, high first gear.. it was like that when you bought it... don't matter 4spd or 5spd.. gears are tall... a 4spd could have a pre tranny installed.. and get slower ground speed.. BUT they are not compatible the dual clutch live pto.. so you would not have had the option to get both in that model.

Sounds like you really wanted a machine with at least an 8spd/ and a live or independent pto pto.. the 8spds have a much better ground speed selection.. there is a 10spd powershift with independent pto in 58+.. but they can be a bit of a dice roll.. especially for a newb.

so.. what tranny ya got?

ps.. what application are you doing where you need powered pto for a moment to stop and change gears, vs having an Over running coupler installed that will let the pto freewheel while you do the clutch stompin...

post back some details.

 

[Soundguy]

ps.. sounds like the lift pump needed to be bled.. and eventually self bled.

would have been better had you followed my directions to bleed.. rather thn letting the pump wear out with no oil in it running it till it finally managed to self bleed. ( though it could have been a sticky unloader that finally decided to be unstuck from shaking around mowing... the info I gave you would have identified which of the 2 possibilities it probably was.)

 

[allen6634]

how do i i d the tractor , iwill be using the tractor for mowing and possibley grading , i don't know just about any thing i can do with it ,i am not real familiar with tractors at all a friend of mind has a massy that has live pto i have been using it just seems safer when i back the mower over the edge of my creek and mow down the grass /weeds there i feel like im going to b ack over the edge the massy has a much lower gear it just barly move hack i even mow with it in 2nd.

 

[allen6634]

my mistake the guy i bought the tractor from told me everything was working good un till he changed the fluid and failed to put the right oil in it. he was using it as it is so i didn't think i was doing anything wrong as i posted earlyer this is my first tractor , so i guess if i hurt something i will have to suffer the conseqinses i have no one to blame but my self.

 

[Soundguy]

the model id and the sn are stamped on the bellhousing flat just aft of the starter.

 

[allen6634]

the model id and the sn are stamped on the bellhousing flat just aft of the starter.

just looked the numbers are 25935 there was a number just above the numbers in between the dimonds it was a 640 thank you for your help i realy appreciate it . please bare with me im learning as i go

 

[Soundguy]

a 640 then.. early-ish 1955

4 spd tranny.. tall 1st grar.. single palte clutch

non live pto

get an orc for it to mow with.. throttle down when backing up

you COULD get a sherman combo or under drive tranny.. but it will be great expense, and not help much..

soundguy

 

[allen6634]

a 640 then.. early-ish 1955

4 spd tranny.. tall 1st grar.. single palte clutch

non live pto

get an orc for it to mow with.. throttle down when backing up

you COULD get a sherman combo or under drive tranny.. but it will be great expense, and not help much..

soundguy

was thinking about buying a 5 sp from e bay will this give me what im looking for? also i was showing my son the tractor today he found that it was leaking oil at the rear of the engine could that be a rear main seal? as i was showing it to my son he started it and i had the 3ph un hook (nothing on it) and the lift raised all the way up is that a good or bad thing? i was also told that i need to replace a o ring for the lift is it a hard job?

 

[Soundguy]

man you are all over on this thing.

1, yes.. you COULD swap in a tranny from a 660 or 860.. however the cost and what not.. it'd be better to sell this tractor and just BUY the one you want.

a leak at the rear of hte engine/front of the trans can be rear main or tranny input shaft seal.


if you start the tractor and the lift comes up and the 3pt control is not lifted.. then the unlaod valve is sticking.

you may or may not need a new oring for the lift piston.

with a load on the lift how long will it hold the laod up after you shut the tractor down? if it drops like a rock.. or drops in a few seconds.. sure.. proabbly needs it.

if it holds it up for 5m? that's ok for a workign tractor.. if an hour? that's bragging. if longer? like new...

 

[allen6634]

yea i know wasn't planning on doing that much looking untill i had the book for it was thinking about a 5 sp swap but i just foundout what a dual clutch costs i know a guy wit a 135 massy i miht try and trade him if it is what i want.only reason is that my son pulled the lift lever up all the way as it was not any thing on it so i took and stood on the arms it whent down with just my weight i only weigh 180

 

[Soundguy]

the mor einfo you provide.. at one time, the easier it will be to diagnose this machine, at a distance for you.

giving me 1 disjointed sentence every few posts is most confusing.

does the lift go up and down with the lift lever?

does it do it under load?

does the 3pt lever stay up when you let go of it or does it drop?

if the lever stays up.. does the lift stay up, under load, tractor off?

how long?

 

[allen6634]

the mor einfo you provide.. at one time, the easier it will be to diagnose this machine, at a distance for you.

giving me 1 disjointed sentence every few posts is most confusing.

does the lift go up and down with the lift lever?

does it do it under load?

does the 3pt lever stay up when you let go of it or does it drop?

if the lever stays up.. does the lift stay up, under load, tractor off?

how long?

the lif goes up with the lever not sure about down. the lift does not work wile under load . the lever stays in place it moves with resistance.

 

[Soundguy]

find out about the down issue.

if the lift does not work under load.. time to see if it is leaking out of the cyl mouth.. if so, time to rebuild the top cover.

 

[allen6634]

find out about the down issue.

if the lift does not work under load.. time to see if it is leaking out of the cyl mouth.. if so, time to rebuild the top cover.

one thing id like to add is that i took the fillbung off wile i was running the tractor i couldn't see anything but i could here fluid gurgling. i have all ready made the decision to go through the lift after i found that the arms that are in the top thing are floping around so i thought id just fix this thing once and for all.

 

[Soundguy]

flopping around?

that should be able to move up freely.. they are not hard coupled to the lift piston...

 

[allen6634]

flopping around?

that should be able to move up freely.. they are not hard coupled to the lift piston...

they are moving side to side i think it will need a bushing or somthing