frugalangler
Gold Member
Frequently off idle stall is caused by varnished fuel in the jets, there's a different jet for idle vs. power on most carbs, and if it's not been run for a while and was left w/ fuel that could be cause.
Cold Blooded Honda
- Thread starter NibbanaFarm
- Start date
- Views: 11859
eddie48
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2012
- Messages
- 270
- Location
- McDonough, NY
- Tractor
- TC45DA, TC40DA, Farmall Super A, New Idea spreader, Dolmar and Echo saws, Yanmar MIniEx, Ford 3550 backhoe, lots of junk
frugalangler has it right. If it is running well with the choke partly on, then it is likely that it is starving for fuel. Likely cause of that is as frugalangler said. I've never used Seafoam, myself, so I can't speak to its worth. If I had the problem you describe, I would remove and clean the carburetor paying particular attention to running a very small wire through all of the fuel orifices and using lots of carb cleaner.
Agree with the 2 above... likely a carb issue which might be corrected with cleaning. I do like Seafoam, and have corrected a few rough running engines with it. One was very difficult and I hot soaked plus treated the fuel. Then I had to heavily treat the fuel and ran it that way for several tanks, and it cleared up nicely. Although that was an older B&S Vanguard engine. I have a smaller Honda that surges and SF helped it some, but never has fully corrected the issue. After researching, I found a lot of complaints about Honda engines surging with no good fix even after carb replacements.
OP
NibbanaFarm
Silver Member
Makes sense, a partially clogged jet. I have always treated the fuel with Star Tron from day one. And it hasn't sat all that long. But could be just a speck of dirt. Unfortunately there's a whole bunch of new snow to deal with first. Thanks for the help everybody.
Sawyer Rob
Super Member
It's a HONDA!!!
Honda air cooled engines hate cold weather! A huge pile of money has been spend to "fix" that and all kinds of fancy things have been devised...
Some company's have dumped using Hondas in their products just for this reason.... Like Norwood, they quit putting big Honda motors on their sawmills because of all the complaints about poor running in the cold... A producer of tree trimmers not far from here quit using Hondas on their trimmers, ALL because of cold weather running problems.
Even Honda has designed a shield for some of their motors, to direct some engine heat toward the carb, to make the engine run better in the cold.
SR
Honda air cooled engines hate cold weather! A huge pile of money has been spend to "fix" that and all kinds of fancy things have been devised...
Some company's have dumped using Hondas in their products just for this reason.... Like Norwood, they quit putting big Honda motors on their sawmills because of all the complaints about poor running in the cold... A producer of tree trimmers not far from here quit using Hondas on their trimmers, ALL because of cold weather running problems.
Even Honda has designed a shield for some of their motors, to direct some engine heat toward the carb, to make the engine run better in the cold.
SR
NibbanaFarm, Do you still have the aluminum shield on the BCS? I just remembered you built that to protect the engine from snow, and I would think it would hold in some heat too. But what Sawyer Rob says might be the issue if this is the coldest weather you've used the blower.
Kyle_in_Tex
Super Star Member
Not the main jet, but the pilot jet or idle circuit jet in your carburetor is clogged. I have an old wire brush that I pluck a needle/wire from to stick into the very tiny holes that are usually located where the butterfly valve almost closes shut creating a venturi in the main bore. I only use carb cleaner in a can to try and clean the carb's bowl and major gunk out. It usually won't clean out the idle orifices without the wire.
If what Sawyer Rob says is true about cold natured Hondas, then you need to drill out the pilot jet with a very small next available sized drill. This will probably be somewhere in the neighborhood of .010-.015, but measure to be sure. This will enrich the mixture to make it idle better.
frugalangler
Gold Member
I had a snow blower years ago that actually had a shield over the exhaust that directed warm air into the intake - I've had numerous of the same type engines on summer equipment, but none of them had that shield. That snow blower would run (and idle) in the coldest of weather, it was absolutely amazing how well it stated and ran. I sold it to replace w/ a new bigger machine, wish I'd kept it, it blew circles around the new one!
OP
NibbanaFarm
Silver Member
It's about 9 degrees F and it just took me about 20 minutes of hard work to get the thing running. I don't have my snow shield on because I'm using it to plow, not with the blower, so there isn't that much blowing snow to get things wet. It might help if I put it on. That's another problem with this engine for cold weather. If there is blowing snow, the snow melts on the engine and freezes the governor.
If Sawer Rob has a link to any of these Honda fixes I'd appreciate. I really hesitate to drill out any jets because I use this tractor in the summer a lot and I don't want any problems in hot weather.
If Sawer Rob has a link to any of these Honda fixes I'd appreciate. I really hesitate to drill out any jets because I use this tractor in the summer a lot and I don't want any problems in hot weather.
Here's a link to a nice Honda Carburetor troubleshooting guide. The GX390 is covered on pages 3-50 through 3-59.
http://www.ipspower.com/images/docu...buretor-Troubleshooting-Manual-Compressed.pdf
http://www.ipspower.com/images/docu...buretor-Troubleshooting-Manual-Compressed.pdf
Sawyer Rob
Super Member
You need to put the shield on that motor...
It keeps the carb from freezing up, and it doesn't need "wet" for that to happen...
I got my "fix" info from the engineers who fixed them, not from a link...
Like the fix I was told about from a Land Pride (if I remember right) engineer, HE said, they put an electric solenoid on the carb to let in extra fuel in as needed...
OR as told to me by the owner of Norwood Industries (Peter Dale) that they dumped Hondas 22hp motor because of too many cold weather complaints (along with a few other things) that Honda refused to come up with a fix, other than the heat shield I already mentioned...
A tech for Brown Welding told me they got rid of Honda motors on their fruit tree trimmers, because they are used in the winter and had too many start/run issues.
There's NO link to info like that and it's a well known Honda issue in the mfg. world....
SR
frugalangler
Gold Member
a little O-T, but older air-cooled VWs have a carb pre-heater that is a pair of tubes that come off the cooling blower via flapper valves, they are counter-balanced so that at idle they open and divert warm air into the intake, as RPM increased, they blew closed and didn't over-heat the intake, if those weren't working those old buggies wold actually develop ice on the intake and they would stall at idle - cure was a propane torch to melt the ice to get it running or garage it to thaw it out.
OP
NibbanaFarm
Silver Member
Actually, what I was asking about is whether there are any of these heat shields or some type of baffle available commercially. I made a cover for my engine to keep the snow drift off of the governor but I have doubts whether it would retain any appreciable heat. I can try it.
OP
NibbanaFarm
Silver Member
That is an excellent manual Ford850. That one gets bookmarked. Thanks.
I stumbled on that manual when I was researching Honda GX engines, and I bookmarked it for future reference. It's the best one I've found. I have an older BCS 605 powered by a 12.5 hp B&S Vanguard. That engine has worked well for me and even sounds nice and smooth compared to the Honda GX, which has more of a high revving and higher pitched lawn mower sound. I started looking at 853's to trade off the 605, but the Honda engine choice made me reluctant. The GX engines get great reviews, but also have some weaknesses as you are experiencing in cold and snow. I considered an 853 with a Robin/Subaru engine from Joel at Earthtools, but I read about quality issues and part of the Subaru engine line was sold off. I'm not sure if Joel still offers them either. So back to Honda I guess.
I like the way your engine shield looks. I can picture it with 3 sides extending down like a full dome or hood over the engine for cold and snow.
ottawarob
Silver Member
I'd be interested in building an engine shield for my 853 as well. I've noticed after blowing snow for a while, it seems like my engine power starts to decrease...
I can't see a photo of the shield you made, could you post it up if possible?
Here's the thread that NibbanaFarm discussed the shield. He has a picture of his weights added to the blower in that thread too. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...snowblower-review.html?highlight=#post4654976
I added his picture of the shield from that thread as well.
Attachments
ottawarob
Silver Member
That is great, thanks! Man, that's nicely done.
I know, I love the work he's done on that! NibbanaFarms needs to stop worrying about snow and post some 'how to' threads on here. Here are the first 3 he should be working on:
- Building a Honda Cold Weather Shield
- Custom Weight brackets for BCS Blowers
- BCS Caster Wheel Build
ottawarob
Silver Member
That's the kind of thing where once you see it you know exactly what you want to do, because a great solution is right in front of you. But, I don't have a workshop at the moment so fab ability is pretty crude.
I was thinking of also making a skid plate for sorts for underneath/the side of the BCS. Really dragged the motor through some snow making a path today.
