Cold Start Blue Smoke rehash

[JimR]

My NX started smoking like that , but it ran smooth, my issue turned out to be a programming issue not regenerating correctly , it was letting the computer dump to much fuel in thinking it was trying to regen , there for over fueling it, this was all dealer fixed under warranty, a year ago, with couple hundred hours now of no issues.

Was your issue a constant thing or only when it was cold. This tractor is a 2015 that I bought last September as a closeout leftover in Wisconsin. This is the first time and only time that it did this smoke screen on startup.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Once mine started having the issue it was every time, temps were anywhere from 30s- to sometimes close to 70s, it would clear up after several minutes of running. I was also getting a lot of black dribble out of the exhaust during this, it was soot building up and mixing in with the condensation that dripped from the exhaust, after having the issue fixed the condensation that drips after start up now is back to being as clean and clear as the day I bought it. Hate that about your dealer, I read that a while back when you had the issues, a dealer sure can make or break a good brand. So many times I've seen were someone has posted, having a issue with a kioti and dealer ships the part to the customer for repair under warranty instead of having to haul the tractor back and forth.

 

[JimR]

Once mine started having the issue it was every time, temps were anywhere from 30s- to sometimes close to 70s, it would clear up after several minutes of running. I was also getting a lot of black dribble out of the exhaust during this, it was soot building up and mixing in with the condensation that dripped from the exhaust, after having the issue fixed the condensation that drips after start up now is back to being as clean and clear as the day I bought it. Hate that about your dealer, I read that a while back when you had the issues, a dealer sure can make or break a good brand. So many times I've seen were someone has posted, having a issue with a kioti and dealer ships the part to the customer for repair under warranty instead of having to haul the tractor back and forth.

If it keeps happening I'll bring it in to another dealer for warranty work. I had clear water coming out of my exhaust that morning. Like anything motorized, good dealers are hard to come by.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Good luck, I know it can be very frustrating.

 

[JimR]

Good luck, I know it can be very frustrating.

Thanks

 

[JimR]

It was 9 degrees up here in the NE this morning. I went out and fired up the tractor. It started up on one cylinder and stalled. I cycled the glow plugs again and it fired up again on one cylinder and ran on only one for about 30 seconds. Then a 2nd kicked in and about 10 seconds later the 3rd cylinder kicked in. There was not one bit of blue smoke. I haven't done anything to the tractor since the first blue smoke out incident except to add 5 gallons of diesel fuel and the appropriate anti-gel additive. I want to guess that it must have been a stuck injector the day of the great smoke out like somebody else had mentioned in a previous post. She's been running for 15 minutes now and purring like a kitten.

 

[Coyote machine]

Seems like you have a couple of issues, one being a local dealer who isn't doing what you want, and the other an issue with an occasional missfire/starting problem.

If you bought the tractor in Wisconsin, your local dealer may not feel compelled to do things like send you free hoses even though you think he should. I'm NOT saying that is the correct approach, BUT he did not sell the tractor to you, did he?
Therefore you may have to just go exchange the hose with his parts department IF you can get him to agree to do so, or you may have to just pay for the hose. Either way, it's not the best solution, but it gets you the new part eventually.
On the fuel issue, you may well have had a sticking injector, or regen issue or not enough glow time and some coagulated fuel in your filter, or a combination of several of the above.
The newest Kiotis with the Tier 4 equipment have had some bugs on some of the machines related to this type of issue. Unfortunately, more complex fuel systems don't really bode well for smooth running on small tractors. Cleaner air, maybe, except more fuel burnt to make the exhaust cleaner is counterintuitive at best, but it is what the government requires.
You have a long warranty, so feel confident in it and your Kioti. Time and use will tell if you have a problem that needs a fix. In the meantime if a filter jams, I'd discard it vs. trying to get it to work. Once jelling occurs even with PS or similar, it is unlikely to get it clear enough to function as normal, which may have contributed to your issue.
As far as block heaters, you could install one, best in the block, BUT make sure if you do it yourself you do not force out the freeze plug in such a way as to damage the block/liners in any way. One guy on here pushed a tool through and had to remove his entire engine, disassemble it and have it welded. A complete nightmare at best. So either have it done by a professional, or VERY carefully.....

 

[JimR]

Seems like you have a couple of issues, one being a local dealer who isn't doing what you want, and the other an issue with an occasional missfire/starting problem.

If you bought the tractor in Wisconsin, your local dealer may not feel compelled to do things like send you free hoses even though you think he should. I'm NOT saying that is the correct approach, BUT he did not sell the tractor to you, did he?
Therefore you may have to just go exchange the hose with his parts department IF you can get him to agree to do so, or you may have to just pay for the hose. Either way, it's not the best solution, but it gets you the new part eventually.
On the fuel issue, you may well have had a sticking injector, or regen issue or not enough glow time and some coagulated fuel in your filter, or a combination of several of the above.
The newest Kiotis with the Tier 4 equipment have had some bugs on some of the machines related to this type of issue. Unfortunately, more complex fuel systems don't really bode well for smooth running on small tractors. Cleaner air, maybe, except more fuel burnt to make the exhaust cleaner is counterintuitive at best, but it is what the government requires.
You have a long warranty, so feel confident in it and your Kioti. Time and use will tell if you have a problem that needs a fix. In the meantime if a filter jams, I'd discard it vs. trying to get it to work. Once jelling occurs even with PS or similar, it is unlikely to get it clear enough to function as normal, which may have contributed to your issue.
As far as block heaters, you could install one, best in the block, BUT make sure if you do it yourself you do not force out the freeze plug in such a way as to damage the block/liners in any way. One guy on here pushed a tool through and had to remove his entire engine, disassemble it and have it welded. A complete nightmare at best. So either have it done by a professional, or VERY carefully.....

First off a little bit of background on this dealer is needed. I approached him before I bought this tractor and asked him about doing warranty work on a tractor if I bought one out of State. he replied "absolutely not a problem" as he did not have any leftovers on hand to sell me. When I found the hose chaffed I contacted him about it. He asked me for pictures and all the purchase info and serial number. He replied that he would order the hose and ship it out to me. That is where he lied to me and failed to follow through on his word. I don't care about the $46.00 hose as much as I care about a person's word. I could swap out the fuel filter. I do have two spares that I just bought Time will tell.

 

[Coyote machine]

First off a little bit of background on this dealer is needed. I approached him before I bought this tractor and asked him about doing warranty work on a tractor if I bought one out of State. he replied "absolutely not a problem" as he did not have any leftovers on hand to sell me. When I found the hose chaffed I contacted him about it. He asked me for pictures and all the purchase info and serial number. He replied that he would order the hose and ship it out to me. That is where he lied to me and failed to follow through on his word. I don't care about the $46.00 hose as much as I care about a person's word. I could swap out the fuel filter. I do have two spares that I just bought Time will tell.

OK, so why not have another conversation with him telling him your concerns about how he fell down on the hose situ? Or do you prefer to have to go elsewhere and find another dealer? Seems like it might be able to be resolved to both your satisfaction if you give it a second look? No?

 

[JimR]

OK, so why not have another conversation with him telling him your concerns about how he fell down on the hose situ? Or do you prefer to have to go elsewhere and find another dealer? Seems like it might be able to be resolved to both your satisfaction if you give it a second look? No?

I already tried that and sent the entire chain of emails back to him showing the entire conversation. His reply was "Give me a credit card number. I'll order the hose for you and shipping is $30.00. Kioti told me that I need to bring my tractor there for the hose replacement under warranty. If you read my other posts you would see that a 60 mile round trip for a hose change with a trailer that I don't have yet is out of the question. I will do a lot of searching for a new dealer if I ever need warranty work. I agree on the block heater versus a hose type. I'll make sure not to puncture anything internally. I'll probably drill the plug, if possible, and use a dent puller to remove it.

 

[Coyote machine]

I already tried that and sent the entire chain of emails back to him showing the entire conversation. His reply was "Give me a credit card number. I'll order the hose for you and shipping is $30.00. Kioti told me that I need to bring my tractor there for the hose replacement under warranty. If you read my other posts you would see that a 60 mile round trip for a hose change with a trailer that I don't have yet is out of the question. I will do a lot of searching for a new dealer if I ever need warranty work. I agree on the block heater versus a hose type. I'll make sure not to puncture anything internally. I'll probably drill the plug, if possible, and use a dent puller to remove it.

I read them all on the way to this one. I saw what you wrote in every post to date. I get the trailer and mileage thing, but the manufacturer and dealer are within their rights and obligations under warranty to require the tractor be at a dealership for warranty work. IF they want to make exceptions, it's their choice. Sometimes they will make exceptions for goodwill.
There is a big orange sticker under the hood of both my first and second DK-40 Kiotis stating that ALL transportation charges are customer's responsibility.
Your trailer issues/proximity are not their problem, their yours.

 

[JimR]

I read them all on the way to this one. I saw what you wrote in every post to date. I get the trailer and mileage thing, but the manufacturer and dealer are within their rights and obligations under warranty to require the tractor be at a dealership for warranty work. IF they want to make exceptions, it's their choice. Sometimes they will make exceptions for goodwill.
There is a big orange sticker under the hood of both my first and second DK-40 Kiotis stating that ALL transportation charges are customer's responsibility.
Your trailer issues/proximity are not their problem, their yours.

I was well aware of all of that prior to contacting Kioti. Regardless of that, this dealer still stated to me that he would order the hose and ship it to me under warranty. He failed, then when called on it, he said I need a credit card to order the hose + $30.00 shipping. That put him in my book as a man that can't be trusted at his word. That is where I will leave it as far as this dealer is concerned.

 

[DieselBound]

Jim, regarding the smoking issue, I'm pretty sure that was a fueling issue. Wasted cold fuel will tend to be lighter, not black., a color that would tend to lead you to believe that it's oil. Could also be not enough fuel. Cold engine smoke isn't as black and white (pun not intended) as is with a warm engine. That said, about the only way you'd see burned oil would be because the engine is exceedingly cold- rings aren't sealing up yet: this just happens, though it really shouldn't happen to any meaningful duration and should only be if it was insanely cold. Can't recall what oil Kiotii is recommending, but I run 5w-40: if it were a colder climate I'd be reaching for 0w-40 (it's available here, and if it weren't much of a cost differential I'd run it- always better going with a lower cold rating).

Sorry if I missed it, but did you replace the fuel filter? If you get enough moisture/water you'll collapse the filter. Some things like this the computer really can't decipher, so it'll be allowing for an increased amount of air while there's really not enough fuel to match (that would tend to involve the turbo, but perhaps there's another mechanism in play?). Total extent depends on how much water/moisture; could collapse a little, or if could be a lot. I haven't changed my fuel filter after I had what was probably a gelling event, probably should have; but, like with you, I did not experience any further problems: I did, however, drain the filter, via the lower drain when doing my 50hr service, and I do seem to recall that I got a fair amount of water (after watching so much various fluids coming out of my tractor during this service I cannot say for sure what it was). In my case I am pretty certain that I had a blockage at the fuel tank outlet, as I blew back through the line and felt some initial resistance (as though it was an ice pellet); my fuel was summer fuel- I'm a bit new to on-site fuel storage and handling; last fill-up was before fuel change-over and I had no thoughts about all of this at that time, and all the way up until I started to troubleshoot my starting issues).

And as has been mentioned, it could be injector issues. I would make sure that this is all documented such that Kioti is aware of it. I have heard of injectors being replaced; what the issue was I cannot recall.

I'd hope that you didn't totally burn the bridge with that dealer. My dealer wasn't so great at first, but I've made it a point to force a better rapport: I'll suffer high fluid charges just to make sure I'm helping them from being crappy due to financial difficulties. I'm happy to report that things have been a lot better: I also replied to Kioti's new owner survey- I recognize that this is all a combined effort and that it is good for everyone to work together. If I get another survey I will be, as it currently stands, responding more favorably.

My dealer picked up my Kioti twice in order to deal with some issues (cab leak and a mal-constructed loader), on their dime. I believe that it was stated up front that they'd be good with this as long as it within a short period of time after purchase (meaning that it was most likely a new manufacturing issue- defect). As I understand it, ANY recall means that the factory foots all costs (which would also include travel time and or hauling costs).

 

[JimR]

I did replace my fuel filter yesterday morning when it was 9 degrees out again. I figure I have nothing to lose. I put 5.2 hours on the tractor yesterday without any issues chipping brush and hauling wood around. I started it up tonight to swap the chipper out for my grader blade as we are about to get a possible 2 feet of snow. The tractor fired right up and ran great until I pulled the loader bucket and a bolt fell out. I'm going to make another post on this issue and another one on converting a Baldwin filter for the water sensor. You previously asked me what size rototiller I had. It is a John Deere 4 footer that that I picked up for $100.00 when I had my Cub 7275.

 

[DieselBound]

Ha ha, well I guess the NXes wouldn't have a problem running a four-foot rototiller:laughing:

I'll keep an eye out for a new posting: I know I need to check all the bolts on my loader- I don't, however, have anything that can measure over 150 ft-lbs., so anything out of this range I'm kind of stuck hoping it's good enough.