Cold weather plumbing design

[stumpfield]

I have a hard time finding a local plumber to do the work at my location. I'm going to do it myself during this long new year weekend. I've always live in So. Cal and know nothing about cold weather plumbing or what needs to be done specific for cold weather. The objective is to prevent pipes from freezing. This is a bathroom in the barn/shop which is unheated and not being used very often.
Other than insulating the pipes, I would like something that's easy to drain the entire system after each trip during the winter season. Something that's not too complicated. Most important part is if I forget to do it, it will minimized the damage. Any comment is greatly appreciated.... Some specific questions: Do I have to worry about water in the P-trap? Will the water in the toilet freeze and crack the toilet? Can't think of a way to drain that easily.... and if I can figure out a way to drain that, how do I handle the sewer gas? Thanks.

 

[MikePA]

Might want to take a look at Heatline and/or give them a call about the pipes. They make products to keep pipes from freezing.

Wouldn't it be easier to heat the place just enough to keep it above freezing?

 

[SPIKER]

mainly I would bring in the main line above ground level inside the building with a low drain points with hand valves that you can open to drain all the water out and into buckets or to sewer.. if you are feeding barn from a different building then make sure that there is a extra hand valve inside that building as well that a hose can be put on and blow out the water line that feeds the barn as well.. (use the air to push water back through the feed line into the other building and then out the hose into the yard away from every thing.) Also put in a spare valve that has an air chuck on one side so you can pressurize the water lines using a small compressor. Then pressurize the water lines using air at about 50 psi. after draining all the water you can naturally that is. and then open all sinks and lines one at time letting air push out the water. be sure to flush toilet and bail out the P traps in all sinks & commode, use a wadded up rag to put into the P TRAP of commode after bailing it dry. The sinks you can use a stopper and or toilet paper to prevent gas coming in. if you have a pressure tank then you need make sure it and lines from it are also drained. As for the well head if every thing is below grade that should be OK, otherwise you will need to use heat tape to prevent that from freezing.

for plumbing materials use PEX for the pressure feed lines as it is more forgiving if frozen than copper or PVC. if you are giong to have HOT water tank I suggest an INSTANT ON type and drain it as well.

mark m

 

[Egon]

Each water supply and drainage system will have its unique quirks for winterizing.

Best plan is to draw a schematic so you know what you have and then work from there to either eliminate the freeze points or protect them.

Water freezes so that answerer's the p-traps and toilet questions. These can be flushed with an RV antifreeze to displace the water to protect them.

 

[kenmac]

You can buy (I think at H.D. ) looks like an extension cord that plugs into 110 outlet & you wrap it around a pipe to keep it from freezing. They work quite well & are not expensive. Yes the toilet will freeze & crack if it gets cold enough. There is very little water in the trap so, it should be ok

 

[tommu56]

Hi tom

I have the same issues at my cabin

Don't tell any one but the sinks and shower just go out to daylight pitched all the way.

I did put branches in for hooking them up later.

The toilet is plumed like normal for the drain and septic tank at 1/4" to the foot

The water plumbing I have in so far is all in pex all pitched to low points with valves. I kept the pex near the the ceiling and exposed to let it warm up.
I did put a 3 way valve on the pump I have inside to pull from cistern I switch it over and suck about 1/2 gallon of rv antifreeze in to pump and flush the toilet a couple of times till tank and bowl are as empty as possible and put another 1/2 gallon in the tank and bowl.

I have had the copper come apart and the pex seems to be more tolerant of freezing than copper so went with it. Black well pipe is good to but you aren't suppose to use it for hot water

cpvc and pvc will crack like glass when it freezes

I am going to try and get up there this week end I'll try and take a couple of pictures we don't fill the system for a weekend we use a bucket flush for toilet and boil water to wash up

tom

 

[Tig]

On the supply side slope all the lines towards a tap that can drain the entire system. Or use as many taps as you need.
Use p traps with drain caps so you can clear all the water. Fill the p traps with plumbing anti freeze.
For the toilet, drain the the tank by holding the handle down. Scoop as much water out of the bowl as you can. Then pour plumbing anti freeze into the tank to flush the internal passages. Leave anti freeze in the bowl to dilute any water that was left.
Compressed air can be used to blow lines out if they won't drain. 40 psi is all you need. This works best if you can pressurize the entire system and then clear one tap at a time.
If you can drain traps of scoop the bowl, just use more plumbing anti freeze to flush/dilute any water.
We shut our country place down in about 30 mins including draining HW tank and disconnecting the well pump.

 

[Egon]

looks like an extension cord that plugs into 110 outlet & you wrap it around a pipe to keep it from freezing. They work quite well & are not expensive. Yes the toilet will freeze & crack if it gets cold enough. There is very little water in the trap so, it should be ok

Those are called "Heat Tapes" They do come in many different versions.

 

[heehaw]

toilets and p-traps are easily protected by pouring in a little windshield washer anti freeze: i've used this for years with no problems and its cheap.
heehaw