Cold Weather tricks

Egon · Jan 19, 2004

Trev:

Heat tape is a common commodity in the cold north. Wrap it around pipes and then apply some insulation and away you go.

Get the one that has internal thermostatic control and can be cut to length.

Check the net. Probably get lots of info.

Egon

Charlie_Iliff · Jan 19, 2004

did find a magnetic heater on the Internet - I think it was 200 watts - I was going to order that - where do you guys think is the best place to put it on a 425? - to get the hydraulic oil tank -

should i put two on - one for the hydraulic fluid , one for the engine pan??

Do you think the heater will work??


Ed: As you can see, Hans had to go to some lengths to get his 425 going. Of course, he had to spend Thursday, Saturday and Sunday nights plowing and spreading salt.
To get the 425 going initially, if you can't get it inside a heated area, I'd recommend a heavy tarp (tent) and a 1200 watt heater (Home Depot - cheap) for a couple of hours to try to bring the whole thing up to temperature. Then, fresh spark plugs and good jumper cables to a running vehicle. If it doesn't light immediately, you'll know for sure that there is something else amiss.
I'd bet that a magnetic heater on the hydraulic oil and one on the engine oil would normally do the job if everything else is in good shape, but if you're talking temperatures near 0, 200 watts each might not be enough. Certainly a blanket or tarp to keep out the wind would also help if a heated garage isn't available.
(The Deutz is really impresive, isn't it? Only diesel I've ever had that starts in cold weather without a lot of cussing. It's hard to believe we're posting solutions for balky gas engines with the 1845 diesels starting without heat or ether.)

MossRoad · Jan 19, 2004

Yeah, we had a truck at the airport that had that built in. It was a bottle that you screwed onto a fitting and the control was in the cab. And you're right... it was always empty.

I think I have purchased about 3 cans of the stuff in my entire life and I still have two of them, so I use it sparingly and only when needed.

MossRoad · Jan 19, 2004

It's hard to believe we're posting solutions for balky gas engines with the 1845 diesels starting without heat or ether.

I was just thinking that. Here's a quote from my web page in the "Why we bought a PT425" area.

 I am sure that the diesels will outlast the Kohler. With that said, I don't care for diesels. I never liked the smell and the feel of fuel oil on my hands. Oil changes are messy and you have to find a place to dispose of it properly. I don't like having to treat the fuel in the winter so it won't gel up. If you run out of fuel you have to prime the system on some of the units and I have had very bad experiences trying to start them when the mercury drops below 0. And that is when I truly need it. I don't want to go out to my garage and futz with starting up my snowplow. Glow plugs, block heaters, BAAA! Hold your comments right there diesel lovers…maybe I was never trained right on diesels and all of this ranting is probably not justified. Anyway...I like gasoline engines! I like the smell, the sound and the explosive power of gas. I am very familiar with gasoline engines and am comfortable working on them. In the winter, maybe a shot of ether and off you go. So, the engine type was a big consideration for me. 

Hope I don't eat those words, someday! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Charlie_Iliff · Jan 19, 2004

Bubenberg asked me to post this. He wants people to know that someone, somewhere has more cold weather problems than he does.

pajoube · Jan 19, 2004

Many great ideas coming out.
I could not find the information on my magnetic block heater but I recall its a 200 or 400 watt and I think it is the latter. Now if I were to plug it in cold it would not do much in 24 hours. If I plug it in on a warm tank it seems to do well. In the very cold weather (minus 20) I have been using the tank heater, light bulb, warm battery, and a bunch of prayers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
When I get my new garage finished (tractor shed) it will have some heat available to direct on the tractor.
When it is forecasted to hit really cold weather again I will start the engine and warm up every 4 hours if the tractor will be needed.
PJ

Sedgewood · Jan 19, 2004

Bubenberg asked me to post this. He wants people to know that someone, somewhere has more cold weather problems than he does. 

I have some customers who need to see that pic. Then there's the folks who tore down their house in Phoenix after it had spent a summer with the water running. Gave "rain forest" a new meaning, it did.

Love that diesel fuel smell on the hands, everytime PT lights off /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Sedgewood

RegL · Jan 19, 2004

Doesn't seem to be many 1430's around here so I thought I should chime in with a report. Started that little two banger up last week at -12. Gave it a couple 15 sec cranks before she popped and ran on one cyclinder for about a half minute, than smoothed right out. I was quite impressed. Now on the other hand, the wife's volvo was not that impressive. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

dpotter · Jan 19, 2004

Just use good 100% synthetic lubes and everything will work at below Zero if your battery is good.

Danny /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

MossRoad · Jan 20, 2004

Yeah, I saw that in another thread. Yeowch!!

MossRoad · Jan 20, 2004

Paul, do you cover your tractor with anything while the heater is on? A mover's quilt will hold a lot of heat in, only you have to be careful not to catch it on fire as well. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Also, one of those silver space blankets will reflect the heat back into the area. Do you stick the magnet heater on the side or bottom of the hydraulic reservoir? I would think the bottom would transfer the most heat up into the tank. All that plate steel is a big heat sink. So that's why I'd cover the rear half of the unit with the mover's quilt while the magnet is on. Might just hold in enough heat to make the difference between go and no go. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Again, can't be too careful with the fire hazard, though. Another thing you could try is to make a doghouse out of 2" thick rigid foam house insulation. They give away cuttoff scraps at a local plant, near here. Just lean two sheets against the rear tires, one against the rear of the tractor and one over the top. Tip the seat forward and put an upside down U shaped piece over the articualtion joint. A little duct tape here and there and you should be able to seal it up enough to hold in the heat from the magnet.

Just thinking out loud at this point.... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Schultz · Jan 20, 2004

Should you ever run out of the starting fluid, there are starting fluids that have upper cylinder lube in them too. Maybe some oil is better than none??

TIm

Sedgewood · Jan 20, 2004

The only instance of damage that was attributed to starting fluid was the 4-71, two stroke diesel 

Now I remember where I got the fondness for diesel smell - doing gen set development testing for Bell Labs on 4-71s and 6-71s back in the mid sixties. You guys are dedging up old memories here. I had a chance to do cold starting tests at 20 below in July at the GM Research Center. Now I seem to recall that the units were equipped with auto ether injection which worked fine (at least in testing). We also tried starting them without ether or heat. It was 2 minutes continuous cranking to the first puff and 5 minutes until they would run on their own (we had a bank of batteries 3 feet square).

Guys running the test cells were saying if a car didn't start at 20 below on the first revolution it wasn't tuned right. Whatever that meant.

Sedgewood

pajoube · Jan 20, 2004

I put the magnetic heater on the bottom side of the tank and plug in all the time after use (winter).
If the temperature is 0 or higher I do nothing except plug in the magnetic heater. If it is going below 0 then I will use the blanket and light bulb as well. When it gets to 35 below or greater I will warm up the engine every 4 hours if I need to use the tractor the next morning.
I have found that the battery is the key element in starting. I always carry a 24-volt portable starting system in each of the vehicles.
As has been mentioned, when it gets to 35 below nothing wants to start including me /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.
I love the dry weather we have and do not mind being out in the weather (on my tractor).
PJ

Charlie_Iliff · Jan 20, 2004

I always carry a 24-volt portable starting system in each of the vehicles.

Paul: please amplify with your experience using the 24 volt power pack.

We used to jump 6 volt stuff with 12, but I've never used a 24 volt jump to a 12 volt starter. There are bound to be warnings that grave damage can happen if you do it, but are you aware of any actual problems? I assume the 24 volts spins the starter on the Kohler pretty smartly. If it gets up to crank speed quickly, it might even be less current than a 12 volt battery trying to overcome thick oils. I can't think of much on a PT that would mind 24 volts.
Sounds like a good thing to have around.

pajoube · Jan 20, 2004

This is an old unit that is a step down system which means 12 volt usable with heavy standby power. Not even sure about the 24 volt as the label on the back is very dirty but if I remember correctly you switch it from 6volt, 12volt, 24 volt. Used on heavy equipment with two batterys.
PJ

J_J · Jan 20, 2004

you say that you sell amsoil synthetics, and power-trac uses 10w-40 motor oil as the hydraulic fluid. which would be better to use, the synthetic oil or the synthetic hydraulic fluid?

our machines use from 8 to 10 gal of fluid. any good deals you might be able to pass our way? thanks

j.j.

Charlie_Iliff · Jan 20, 2004

JJ
A while back I had Terry run the Amsoil Tractor Hydraulic Fluid specs by the engineers at Power Trac. They reported that Power Tracs would love the stuff. Power Trac doesn't call for it because they think regular motor oil does well and is a lot cheaper and easier to find wherever you happen to be.
I hope someday soon to put the synthetic THF in my 1845, but haven't yet melted my plastic to do so.

Sedgewood · Jan 21, 2004

I hope someday soon to put the synthetic THF in my 1845, but haven't yet melted my plastic to do so.


Having enough melted plastic around, I put in Kubota AW ISO VG 46 hydraulic oil. It was more readily available in 25 gallon quantities than 10w40 motor oil and recommended by my multi brand tractor dealer as what a great many of his customers are using.

So far the wheels still go 'round,
Sedgewood

barrell · Jan 22, 2004

After running into cold weather starting problems with my 1425 I called pt they told me to run Mercon as the hydraulic fluid in the winter and switch back to motor oil in the summer. I did that for a few years then measured the space the small tractor battery takes up and went down to walmart. I found a 800 amp car battery that fit in the space. I removed the 4 engine mounting bolts and slid the engine forward to allow the battery to be slipped in place. This is less risky and quiker than removing the muffler and risking snapping off one of the studs and then also needing new gaskets.
Barrell