Colorado wolf reintroduction

[YanmarFever]

The ecosystem isn’t natural now (not within the bounds of natural variability) and never will be again. Human settlements and infrastructure has changed things such that many natural resources and animal populations require human management to be sustainable over time. Those of us who manage natural resources are well aware of this. It’s a science.

Spoken like a true tree hugger....

 

[jyoutz]

Spoken like a true tree hugger....

Spoken by someone who has a degree in forest management and knows the science. Besides, you make no sense: tree huggers are anti-management and foresters are managers.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I'm from Idaho, and worked for Fish and Game, during the delisting process. The wolves did change a lot of the herd dynamics of the elk. They don't bunch up like they used to. There probably still as many elk as there were before the re-introduction. But they are a lot harder to count and hunt now that they are more dispersed. The wolves are putting enough pressure on them that they are broken up in smaller groups. That has had unexpected impacts on the Quaking Aspen, and other vegetation which the elk browse and graze on have had amazing recoveries without the elk camping on them for unnaturally extended periods.

During the delisting all of the biologists and environmentalists, were very concerned that the hunting would destroy the wolf population. I pointed out that when the Fish and Wildlife Service issued kill orders because of livestock predation, they would send a team of professional wolf hunters, and they were only successful 25 to 30% of the time.

Before the delisting I would see wolves in the wild at about 200-yards. After delisting when people started hunting them, if you saw one it was four hundred yards or more and running fast. Even after amended the game regulations to allow electronic calls, the success rate is pretty low, and the population is stable.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Nothing natural about the situation here…. The livestock depredation here is about 1 wolf is doing 8 livestock kills. Extrapolate that to a fully recovered wolf population that will literally be thousands of livestock killed. In the first year of claims from ranchers in my county, 2024, $600k in claims. The budget was $350k. That is with 7 wolves in the wild…. So they released 15 more! The claims to the state will be millions…. Let alone every wildlife officer within 500 miles is only working on wolf kill identification right now.

 

[Renze]

Spoken by someone who has a degree in forest management and knows the science. Besides, you make no sense: tree huggers are anti-management and foresters are managers.

You made perfect sense to me because i got you the first time i read it. But you lost him at "its a science" because thats exactly what treehuggers say when you ask them to substantiate their emotional jibberish.

Then, whenever he read it a 2nd time, the message wouldnt get through anymore because he already read a treehugger marker that concluded your otherwise very valid reasoning

 

[LHF2019]

The ecosystem isn’t natural now (not within the bounds of natural variability) and never will be again. Human settlements and infrastructure has changed things such that many natural resources and animal populations require human management to be sustainable over time. Those of us who manage natural resources are well aware of this. It’s a science.

Really like your statement. I have stream issues and when young and dumb fell for conservation district stream fencing program. Thought what a great idea. No more washed out fences. I'll tell you that all my streams have moved more in less than 20 years than the than the previous 20 years to that. I still have my uncle tell how nice the stream was and hadn't moved going back to the 60's. You can't tell me that the TONS of eroded of topsoil that got moved down the stream is better for the environment than a properly maintained stream that has the ability to over flow it's bank into low lying grass lands and recede back to it original position. As far as I'm concerned we as humans have destroyed everything natural and those of us lucky enough to manage the ground can only do the best we can. The issue is pencil pushers behind a desk that somehow think they can do a better job than those of us that have to deal with the issues day in and day out. I'm not saying stream bank fencing is bad but it does not work for every situation. And it takes decades to realize the mistakes then decades more to fix them then hope you can pass on the information. None of this happened overnight nor will it be fixed overnight.

 

[stumblinhorse]

More local info. All this from just a handful of wolves.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/colorado-wolves/science-fair-project-looks-at-wolves-impact-on-cattle/73-5e444154-0081-4d46-b78c-70c037bb48e0

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/colorado-wolves/colorado-wolf-damage-ranchers-payment-approved/73-d8b20297-4cba-4d13-8448-416877e8e07a

Couple of quotes

CPW's northwest regional manger stated that wolves killed 15 of Conway Farrell's livestock, and he had a number of missing sheep. The commission agreed to pay him $287,407.63.

Farrell said the payment does not make up for his total losses. Colorado law requires the state to pay ranchers for direct losses caused by wolves, and ranchers can ask for compensation for indirect losses afterward, such as missing livestock and lower birthrates.

 

[Eagle1]

More local info. All this from just a handful of wolves.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/colorado-wolves/science-fair-project-looks-at-wolves-impact-on-cattle/73-5e444154-0081-4d46-b78c-70c037bb48e0

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/colorado-wolves/colorado-wolf-damage-ranchers-payment-approved/73-d8b20297-4cba-4d13-8448-416877e8e07a

Couple of quotes

CPW's northwest regional manger stated that wolves killed 15 of Conway Farrell's livestock, and he had a number of missing sheep. The commission agreed to pay him $287,407.63.

Farrell said the payment does not make up for his total losses. Colorado law requires the state to pay ranchers for direct losses caused by wolves, and ranchers can ask for compensation for indirect losses afterward, such as missing livestock and lower birthrates.

It's just government money (340000+ ) no one will question such tiny payments, only 3-4 full time salaries.
Have to decide where the Colorado Parks and Wildlife commissioners should be spending the tax dollars.

 

[stumblinhorse]

It's just government money (340000+ ) no one will question such tiny payments, only 3-4 full time salaries.
Have to decide where the Colorado Parks and Wildlife commissioners should be spending the tax dollars.

The budget was promised to be $350k total per year, 340k is just 2 claims from 2 ranches. Total direct claims were 600k in the first year just from 4 ranches with just 7 wolves total. It will be millions upon millions with the goal of 300-350 wolves reintroduced.

 

[Eagle1]

The budget was promised to be $350k total per year, 340k is just 2 claims from 2 ranches. Total direct claims were 600k in the first year just from 4 ranches with just 7 wolves total. It will be millions upon millions with the goal of 300-350 wolves reintroduced.

Is it not normal for Government to under estimate cost by a factor of magnitude? I'm on your side, I like wild life but I also like my livestock.

Wolves are magnificent canines, and we have a pack of dogs that size. I would expect a pack of wild ones to decimate my domestics and i have to ensure mine never go after animals they should not.